Can't Find FX1000, any other idea? at DVinfo.net

Ahmet Toca · June 24th, 2009, 01:04 PM

Hi all, I’m a newbie on camcorders. Have background on video editing and photography.

Planning to buy a camcorder where we will shoot some interviews, organization meetings, introduction videos and maybe documentaries sometime. The quality of shooting must be broadcasting level because we will be sending our shootings to the news agencies. (prefer HD)

Read a lot (especially in dvinfo forums), the more I read the more I’m getting confused.

My budget is 3500$ I was almost buying FX1000 for 3000$ (also want to keep some money for mics, lights etc.) but unfortunately out of stock in Malaysia & Singapore and they keep saying next week, next week...

So I need some a new option(s), I need suggestions please...

Also have some question marks on mind.

Some says “FX7 returning to market” does it means; FX7 is better than FX1000? (Or I just read so many old posts…?)

3Cmos is a newer technology for camcorders, also as I knew Cmos sensors from my photography background are more sensitive to light. But I read a lot about pan problems with Cmos sensor. Is 3CCD still better?

Stelios Christofides · June 24th, 2009, 02:09 PM

Ahmet

You will find a lot of info here:
Sony HVR-Z5 / HDR-FX1000 - The Digital Video Information Network

You must have though the patience to read some threads here.

For what you want to use the camera I would go for the FX1000. On the other hand if audio is important to your kind of work (and from what I read it is) then perhaps you should go for the Z5 that has XLR inputs. More expensive though, but you have to spend money to make money...

Stelios

Dave Blackhurst · June 24th, 2009, 04:55 PM

Ahmet -

The FX7 was released several years ago now, it's a fairly capable camera, but it probably is not going to be as good as a later release - the technology tends to move along rather fast. On the flip side, the FX7 should be around the $2K price rather than the $3K range, so you'd have room to buy a proper light kit, proper audio, and any accessories while still remaining within or perhaps even below your $3.5K budget. Obviously if the budget were higher, there are "better" cameras. Sony re-released the FX7 to meet a price point that is really under served (no "competition"). It's not a bad cam for the money, but it does have smaller 1/4" CMOS chips (vs. 1/3" in the FX1000), so it has it's limits. If your lighting conditions are difficult, neither cam may be enough.

Since you're new to all of this, you should really consider audio and lighting, as they can take even an inexpensive HD camera and get you pretty good results, especially if you set up a little "studio" for the marketing stuff you want. I'm personally fond of using several smaller cameras for live events, giving more to intercut in edit/post. You've got a range of possible uses, so it's a bit hard to say "go this way". I'm gathering this is effectively an "in house" multimedia division, so you don't need a big camera to impress anyone, and that opens up a world of possibilities... the video quality you can get from a little HD "consumer" cam nowadays might surprise you.

Ahmet Toca · June 24th, 2009, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stelios Christofides

You must have though the patience to read some threads here.

For what you want to use the camera I would go for the FX1000. On the other hand if audio is important to your kind of work (and from what I read it is) then perhaps you should go for the Z5 that has XLR inputs. More expensive though, but you have to spend money to make money...

I have the patience, and already read a lot, Z5 is over budget how about V1?

Ahmet Toca · June 24th, 2009, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Blackhurst

so you don't need a big camera to impress anyone, and that opens up a world of possibilities... the video quality you can get from a little HD "consumer" cam nowadays might surprise you.

Sorry I think you got me wrong, from your sentences what I can see; you think that I'm going to do this as a hobby, unfortunately no.

We have a businessmen association here, there won't be a home studio at all. Interviews will be done in for example; ministers office etc. Documentaries mostly will be regarding tourism & business related like short footages. Organization meetings won't be less complicated than wedding ceremonies.

And camera must be real impressive, if we go to the prime ministers office by small handycam for sure I'll get almost the same result video but not the same impression... So I need a bigger camera than handycams. For this reason I checked JVC201 but it's not HD at all.

So really confused right now, have no idea what to buy, FX1000 is not an option because I have to buy immediately where no one know when it will be on market... It doesn't have to be Sony... Any suggestions?

Ahmet Toca · June 28th, 2009, 11:45 PM

I found a shop in Singapore selling lots of items (but no FX1000). Here is the deal;

Sony V1 3000$
Sony Z1 3600$
Canon A1s 3650$
Panasonic 150 3200$
Panasonic 100b 2000$

V1 is very similar to FX1000. Plus it has XLR inputs but has a smaller sensor 1/4 which makes me think twice (?) Where even 100b has 1/3 3CCD and very cheap where I can buy lots of equipment with the money left (lights, mics etc.) but panny is not HD... :(

I read a lot about A1s, seems very nice camera, I maybe can buy it but then I can't afford other equipments...

About Panasonic 150; do I really need a very strong PC to edit videos that I shoot with this camera? Can't I just transfer videos from SD card to my laptop and edit? Or capture via i-link? If it won't be big headache I'm planning to buy panny 150 otherwise??

10x in advance.

Robert M Wright · June 29th, 2009, 08:52 AM

The HMC150 records video as AVCHD (not as HDV).

Editing AVCHD directly demands a lot of CPU power. I suggest using an intermediate codec, like Cineform or Canopus HQ, for editing.

Robert M Wright · June 29th, 2009, 09:33 AM

Of the cameras you listed, I'd go with the HMC150, for a lot of reasons. I wouldn't let AVCHD intimidate you.

The HMC150 appears to be a heck of a camera - good low light performance (relatively speaking, compared to the others), robust manual controls and tools (like histogram to assist with adjusting exposure, for example), better compression from an image quality perspective, far more format options (like 720p60, for example, in addition to all the formats the other cameras can shoot) and recording to solid state media (way less expensive than buying tapes, over the long haul, and easier to transfer to computer - also, much longer continuous recording times, on 32GB cards, than you can get with any tape).

If you plan to (or already do) use an intermediate (like Cineform or Canopus HQ) for editing, I just don't really see a downside to AVCHD (vs HDV).

There's also what I call a poor man's alternative to Cineform. XVID (freeware) can be used as a pretty good intermediate codec for editing, by setting the I frame interval to 1 (so you wind up with intraframe only compression) and setting the quantizer to 1 (for image quality that rivals the better known intermediate codecs).

Ahmet Toca · June 29th, 2009, 05:45 PM

Thanks for your reply.

So you say that HMC150 is better than A1s? I read a lot since from last message and quite impressed with pana150.

There one thing I really need to clarify; everybody says editing AVCHD needs a strong computer like Quadcore, how about converting footage to Canopus do I still need a strong PC or my laptop would be enough?

My config:
T5500 Core 2 duo 1.66
4Gb Ram
Ati X1300 256Mb

- Can I find some footage to download on AVCHD to try converting?

Robert M Wright · June 29th, 2009, 09:55 PM

If you use Canopus HQ as an intermediate codec, it doesn't matter if it was AVCHD or HDV that came out of the camera. You are editing the Canopus HQ file, not the original file from the camera. I think (but I'm not sure) that you need Edius 5 or Edius Neo 2, to easily convert AVCHD files to Canopus HQ files (a convenient conversion utility is included with those versions).

Search this forum and you should be able to find some short AVCHD clips from an HMC150 to test with. You can find some AVCHD clips shot with a Canon HF11 (consumer AVCHD camcorder) here:

Canon VIXIA HF11 Comparison Video

Dave Blackhurst · June 29th, 2009, 10:14 PM

Ahmet -
My apologies if my earlier reply didn't fit what you were looking for, it appears you already feel your requirements will put you in the "big cam" department - I didn't know whether you had a situation where you could get by on strictly image quality, but I totally understand how a big cam is required sometimes.

The V1U is the "pro" version of the FX7, again an "older" camera, but like the FX7, capable if you learn what it can and can't do. The main limitation is going to be lower light situations, so if shooting in difficult lighting is going to be something you'll deal with a lot, that'd be the one consideration. Budget may put these two on the top of your list, and if that's the case, they ain't bad.

I think I'd lean towards the HMC150 from everything I've read though it will nearly max out your budget... but be aware...

AVCHD is a quad core proposition, your dual core will not cut it. HOWEVER, you may want to see if Panasonic includes a utility to downres to SD after dumping the files to your machine - Sony has something like that for their AVCHD consumer stuff, and once the files are downrezzed, it's going to be like editing SD... might provide in interim solution if you don't have to deliver in HD right away.

Ahmet Toca · June 30th, 2009, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert M Wright

I think (but I'm not sure) that you need Edius 5 or Edius Neo 2, to easily convert AVCHD files to Canopus HQ files (a convenient conversion utility is included with those versions).

Yes Edius has a software called "Canopus Procoder 3" can be used by itself & also has Premier plug-in etc.

I see that QuadCore Pc's are not so expensive, but do I need a good VGA card as well?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Blackhurst

The main limitation is going to be lower light situations

Thanks Dave; from the things that I read in all forums what I understood is unlike digital cameras CMOS sensors doesn't make so much sense on low light conditions. One of the biggest reason that I choose FX1000 was it's sensor.

And another thing I would like to ask to all, I read the user's manual but can't see anything related; can I shoot 4/3 TV format with panny? 768 x 576

Robert M Wright · June 30th, 2009, 05:54 AM

You don't need a quad core if you edit Canopus HQ intermediate files (but quad core computers are pretty cheap nowadays). Any modern VGA card should be adequate.

The HMC150 won't shoot SD, but you can pretty easily downrez HD to SD (and crop to get 4:3).

Ahmet Toca · June 30th, 2009, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert M Wright

You don't need a quad core if you edit Canopus HQ intermediate files (but quad core computers are pretty cheap nowadays). Any modern VGA card should be adequate.

The HMC150 won't shoot SD, but you can pretty easily downrez HD to SD (and crop to get 4:3).

Yeah actually I just checked the prices around 600$ can make a quadcore pc. That's won't be a problem.

"crop to get 4:3" So must I be careful while shooting.

Thanks a lot to everyone, tomorrow I'll go and buy Panasonic HMC 152 (Asia version).

June 24th, 2009, 01:04 PM	#1
Ahmet Toca New Boot Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Malaysia Posts: 17	Can't Find FX1000, any other idea? Hi all, I’m a newbie on camcorders. Have background on video editing and photography. Planning to buy a camcorder where we will shoot some interviews, organization meetings, introduction videos and maybe documentaries sometime. The quality of shooting must be broadcasting level because we will be sending our shootings to the news agencies. (prefer HD) Read a lot (especially in dvinfo forums), the more I read the more I’m getting confused. My budget is 3500$ I was almost buying FX1000 for 3000$ (also want to keep some money for mics, lights etc.) but unfortunately out of stock in Malaysia & Singapore and they keep saying next week, next week... So I need some a new option(s), I need suggestions please... Also have some question marks on mind. Some says “FX7 returning to market” does it means; FX7 is better than FX1000? (Or I just read so many old posts…?) 3Cmos is a newer technology for camcorders, also as I knew Cmos sensors from my photography background are more sensitive to light. But I read a lot about pan problems with Cmos sensor. Is 3CCD still better?

June 24th, 2009, 02:09 PM	#2
Stelios Christofides Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Nicosia, CYPRUS Posts: 1,080	Ahmet You will find a lot of info here: Sony HVR-Z5 / HDR-FX1000 - The Digital Video Information Network You must have though the patience to read some threads here. For what you want to use the camera I would go for the FX1000. On the other hand if audio is important to your kind of work (and from what I read it is) then perhaps you should go for the Z5 that has XLR inputs. More expensive though, but you have to spend money to make money... Stelios __________________ My Blog: http://steliosc.blogspot.com "I hope for nothing, I fear nothing, I am free" Nikos Kazantzakis

June 24th, 2009, 04:55 PM	#3
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Ahmet - The FX7 was released several years ago now, it's a fairly capable camera, but it probably is not going to be as good as a later release - the technology tends to move along rather fast. On the flip side, the FX7 should be around the $2K price rather than the $3K range, so you'd have room to buy a proper light kit, proper audio, and any accessories while still remaining within or perhaps even below your $3.5K budget. Obviously if the budget were higher, there are "better" cameras. Sony re-released the FX7 to meet a price point that is really under served (no "competition"). It's not a bad cam for the money, but it does have smaller 1/4" CMOS chips (vs. 1/3" in the FX1000), so it has it's limits. If your lighting conditions are difficult, neither cam may be enough. Since you're new to all of this, you should really consider audio and lighting, as they can take even an inexpensive HD camera and get you pretty good results, especially if you set up a little "studio" for the marketing stuff you want. I'm personally fond of using several smaller cameras for live events, giving more to intercut in edit/post. You've got a range of possible uses, so it's a bit hard to say "go this way". I'm gathering this is effectively an "in house" multimedia division, so you don't need a big camera to impress anyone, and that opens up a world of possibilities... the video quality you can get from a little HD "consumer" cam nowadays might surprise you.

June 28th, 2009, 11:45 PM	#6
Ahmet Toca New Boot Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Malaysia Posts: 17	I found a shop in Singapore selling lots of items (but no FX1000). Here is the deal; Sony V1 3000$ Sony Z1 3600$ Canon A1s 3650$ Panasonic 150 3200$ Panasonic 100b 2000$ V1 is very similar to FX1000. Plus it has XLR inputs but has a smaller sensor 1/4 which makes me think twice (?) Where even 100b has 1/3 3CCD and very cheap where I can buy lots of equipment with the money left (lights, mics etc.) but panny is not HD... :( I read a lot about A1s, seems very nice camera, I maybe can buy it but then I can't afford other equipments... About Panasonic 150; do I really need a very strong PC to edit videos that I shoot with this camera? Can't I just transfer videos from SD card to my laptop and edit? Or capture via i-link? If it won't be big headache I'm planning to buy panny 150 otherwise?? 10x in advance.

June 29th, 2009, 08:52 AM	#7
Robert M Wright Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Minnesota (USA) Posts: 2,171	The HMC150 records video as AVCHD (not as HDV). Editing AVCHD directly demands a lot of CPU power. I suggest using an intermediate codec, like Cineform or Canopus HQ, for editing.

June 29th, 2009, 09:33 AM	#8
Robert M Wright Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Minnesota (USA) Posts: 2,171	Of the cameras you listed, I'd go with the HMC150, for a lot of reasons. I wouldn't let AVCHD intimidate you. The HMC150 appears to be a heck of a camera - good low light performance (relatively speaking, compared to the others), robust manual controls and tools (like histogram to assist with adjusting exposure, for example), better compression from an image quality perspective, far more format options (like 720p60, for example, in addition to all the formats the other cameras can shoot) and recording to solid state media (way less expensive than buying tapes, over the long haul, and easier to transfer to computer - also, much longer continuous recording times, on 32GB cards, than you can get with any tape). If you plan to (or already do) use an intermediate (like Cineform or Canopus HQ) for editing, I just don't really see a downside to AVCHD (vs HDV). There's also what I call a poor man's alternative to Cineform. XVID (freeware) can be used as a pretty good intermediate codec for editing, by setting the I frame interval to 1 (so you wind up with intraframe only compression) and setting the quantizer to 1 (for image quality that rivals the better known intermediate codecs).

June 29th, 2009, 05:45 PM	#9
Ahmet Toca New Boot Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Malaysia Posts: 17	Thanks for your reply. So you say that HMC150 is better than A1s? I read a lot since from last message and quite impressed with pana150. There one thing I really need to clarify; everybody says editing AVCHD needs a strong computer like Quadcore, how about converting footage to Canopus do I still need a strong PC or my laptop would be enough? My config: T5500 Core 2 duo 1.66 4Gb Ram Ati X1300 256Mb - Can I find some footage to download on AVCHD to try converting?

June 29th, 2009, 09:55 PM	#10
Robert M Wright Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Minnesota (USA) Posts: 2,171	If you use Canopus HQ as an intermediate codec, it doesn't matter if it was AVCHD or HDV that came out of the camera. You are editing the Canopus HQ file, not the original file from the camera. I think (but I'm not sure) that you need Edius 5 or Edius Neo 2, to easily convert AVCHD files to Canopus HQ files (a convenient conversion utility is included with those versions). Search this forum and you should be able to find some short AVCHD clips from an HMC150 to test with. You can find some AVCHD clips shot with a Canon HF11 (consumer AVCHD camcorder) here: Canon VIXIA HF11 Comparison Video

June 29th, 2009, 10:14 PM	#11
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Ahmet - My apologies if my earlier reply didn't fit what you were looking for, it appears you already feel your requirements will put you in the "big cam" department - I didn't know whether you had a situation where you could get by on strictly image quality, but I totally understand how a big cam is required sometimes. The V1U is the "pro" version of the FX7, again an "older" camera, but like the FX7, capable if you learn what it can and can't do. The main limitation is going to be lower light situations, so if shooting in difficult lighting is going to be something you'll deal with a lot, that'd be the one consideration. Budget may put these two on the top of your list, and if that's the case, they ain't bad. I think I'd lean towards the HMC150 from everything I've read though it will nearly max out your budget... but be aware... AVCHD is a quad core proposition, your dual core will not cut it. HOWEVER, you may want to see if Panasonic includes a utility to downres to SD after dumping the files to your machine - Sony has something like that for their AVCHD consumer stuff, and once the files are downrezzed, it's going to be like editing SD... might provide in interim solution if you don't have to deliver in HD right away.

June 30th, 2009, 05:54 AM	#13
Robert M Wright Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Minnesota (USA) Posts: 2,171	You don't need a quad core if you edit Canopus HQ intermediate files (but quad core computers are pretty cheap nowadays). Any modern VGA card should be adequate. The HMC150 won't shoot SD, but you can pretty easily downrez HD to SD (and crop to get 4:3).