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Old June 19th, 2002, 10:35 AM   #1
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MPEG 4 compression, updatable?

from what I've been able to gather, MiniDV uses MPEG4 compression. As the days go by people are bringing out newer and, better compression codecs, is there a possibility that a new (i.e. MiniDV2) recording format could be brough out, and the chips in the cameras updated? I understand that most cameras are manufactured from printed circuit boards, but it still might be possible?

also, when is someone going to bring out a camera with firmware updatable over the web using usb?
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Old June 19th, 2002, 10:41 AM   #2
 
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huh???
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Old June 19th, 2002, 11:08 AM   #3
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as far as i know DV or miniDV uses DV compression which is closer to MJPEG than to any MPEG.
Yes, Sony has a couple of camera models which are able to record onto memory stick in mpeg and also some models which record to tape in mpeg mode, but this is a different story.
Where did you get that DV is MPEG4?

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Old June 19th, 2002, 03:17 PM   #4
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Many still digital cameras can have their firmware upgraded by down loading files from the MFG.s site. At this time I don't know of any miniDV cameras that can be upgrade in this method. Presently the cameras have to go back to the MFG. for the firmware upgrade.

Jeff
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Old June 20th, 2002, 05:34 AM   #5
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I was having a conversation with some guy who obviously didn't know what he was talking about. thanks for clearing that up.

There are music keyboards coming out now that allow the uer to connect the keyboard to their computer via usb and download new sounds into it over the web. It seems that system would be useful for DVcams, for instance companies could work on improving the quality of the digital zoom and then post the updated software on their webssite for download. I think its the future...

sorry if this reads strangley, I just got kicked out of bed by my mum to help her get the web working, and i'm not feeling quite sane yet...
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Old June 20th, 2002, 07:40 AM   #6
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DV camera's use a compression called.... (wait for this)... DV.
It has nothing to do with any other standard, only that is works
on similiar lines. Both DV, (M)JPEG and MPEG work with huffman
based compression algorithms, macroblocks and what not. That
is as far as the comparison goes. DV for example is a Constant
Bit Rate compression (CBR). Mpeg can be both CBR and VBR
(Variable Bit Rate), etc. Mpeg compression would be very bad for
video editing (difficult to edit dus to inter-frame compression).

I agree on the firmware thing. It would be great if we could
upgrade our camares with some new firmware over the firewire
cable. Then it wouldn't have to go back for every fix or new
feature (would be nice).

Keep on dreaming.
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Old October 3rd, 2002, 02:32 PM   #7
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Rob,
Are you saying that MPEG-2 is a bad format to edit with? I was thinking about trying this but I won't waste my time if you say it's bad.
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Old October 3rd, 2002, 02:47 PM   #8
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MPG-2 has I frames (interpolated) that make editing less than optimum. Edit your material as DV then output it as MPG-2. Unless you have dedicated hardware to do this conversion expect long software renders of the DV material to MPG-2. The quality is generally lower than DV also.

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Old October 3rd, 2002, 02:52 PM   #9
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Thanks. So what format is ideal for making DVD's and which is ideal for export to digital tape?
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Old October 3rd, 2002, 02:53 PM   #10
 
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Very good quality can be achieved by setting bitrates higher than 4000Kbps. And all this at file sizes fractions of the size of the DV file. The new Windoze Media Encoders for WMP series 9 are EXCELLENT mpeg4 encoders that will do a better job than Quicktime.

The ONLY format you can use for DVD is a subset of the MPEG2 compression standard....it has very specialized frame sizes, datarate limits and audio formats. For writing to DV tape, you only have 1 choice...DV format.

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Old October 4th, 2002, 08:56 AM   #11
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The guy you were talking to might have seen the new Sony MicroMV video cameras which do record in MPEG2 format. The tapes are super small allowing for them to come out with some tiny cameras. They still record MPEG1 format to their memory sticks and many of them come with Bluetooth and touchscreen LCD panels for doing stuff like email and surfing the Web through them. (why you would use a video camera for that, i have no idea) It does allow for the camera to connect to your computer wirelessly to send whatever is on your memory stick and allows your camera to act like a web cam. One of the drawbacks besides the extra compression is that not many editors work with the new format. I've only heard of MovieShaker from Sony working with it.
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Old October 5th, 2002, 02:34 PM   #12
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Micro DV camera's (Sony) use a 10Mb/sec MPEG 2 HW compressor, not updateable. MPEG4 is a totally other "beast" (dvx...). DV uses a 25 Mb/sec"smart"(macroblocks) version of motion JPEG which is a DCT transform based codec using Huffman optimization for the quantizised values.
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Old October 7th, 2002, 08:17 AM   #13
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dang

Having used my GL-2 a bit I am now also pissed off with the poor quality of canon's zoombrowser software.

When I paid 90 for my logitech traveler webcam it came with software that allowed me to do stop motion animation, it had a motion detecteor feature (EG starts vidoeing when someone enters the room), and a time lapse feature that would let u shoot as little as 1 frame per hour.

THe canon software pales in comparison. It is full of bugs and has obviously not been extensively tested.

Another nice feature would be to have a selectio of say 30 digi effects on the computer, and to be able to drag and drop them onto the camera when required.

or maybe a calibration program, to allow you to set cameras image (colour gain, phase, etc.) from the computer

Whenever I get started on this product I think of stuff the software should do but doesn't. The integrations that are possible but that canon simply haven't bothered with, because they think there's no demand, or cos they think it will step on the toes of their other products. (and don't even get me started on poor quality SDcard stills)...
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Old October 7th, 2002, 05:20 PM   #14
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DV uses a METHOD called DCT (Discrete Cosine Tangent) Intraframe compression... it encodes this to a CODEC (COmpressor-DECompressor) referred to as "DV"

DCT is the method by which the codec "throws away" data to create a manageable bitrate...

Intraframe means that ALL compression takes place within ONE frame of video, no key frames, no progressive or "I-frames" like MPEG-2 variants... (and for the record there are some MPEG-2 variants that use a keyframe for each individual frame)

Hope this helps...

Good shooting!


-Shaun

PS oops... just saw Dre's most recent post... just wanted to let him know this is NOT intended as a correction as he is absolutely correct in his information.
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