image stabalizer question at DVinfo.net

Brian Schmidt · April 21st, 2004, 10:27 AM

can you guys help me out... i am lookin at gettin' a dv camera and i have been looking at the Canon Optura Xi Mini Dv or the Panasonic PV-DV953. for what i can tell.... its what i am looking for and price range.

jsut curious what the difference is between
Optical Image Stabilizer and Electronic Image Stabilization

i believe both cameras hav ethe optical image stab............ just wondering the difference cuz i hear alot of hype on the image stabalization stuff.

thanks,

Xiaoli Wang · April 28th, 2004, 01:57 PM

Electronic IS slightly magnifies the image and measures the amount of movement post-CCD and then adjusts it so shake is no longer visible when recorded/viewed. It slightly reduces image quality.

Optical IS uses a lens element that counteracts shake by a vibration detecting gyro which adjusts an optical element/group within the lens to counteract it.

Optical is superior but more expensive. From what I know either method should not be used when the camera is on a tripod for it could cause panning or movement irregularities.

Nick Reed · April 30th, 2004, 12:49 AM

If you can wait until July, the Panasonic GS400 will be replacing the 953. It should be a much better cam in several important areas; notably, better low-light performance and Mega OIS. In the lower priced Panasonic cams (953 and down) the image stabilization has been rather poor in comparison to Sony's. Mega OIS should be a big improvement.

Brian Schmidt · May 4th, 2004, 08:45 AM

hhhhmmm......i thought the 953 allready had the Mega OIS........(?)

i looked at reports and logistics of the camera and it says it has Mega OIS. i will look further......

any thoughts on the Optura Xi mini?

Chris Hurd · May 4th, 2004, 08:55 AM

The Optura Xi has optical IS. The Optura 300 and the new Optura 30 & 40 have electronic IS. In my opinion the Xi is a great camcorder. It does native 16:9, samples video from a 1.3mp chunk of its 2 megapixel CCD, takes great stills, has a large 3.5" LCD display and uses optical IS.

Guy Bruner · May 4th, 2004, 10:21 AM

The DV953 has OIS and Mega OIS. Mega is only used for stills. It works very well and I suspect won't be changed for the next version, GS400, if that is what is really coming to America.

Rob Hester · May 6th, 2004, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Electronic IS slightly magnifies the image and measures the amount of movement post-CCD and then adjusts it so shake is no longer visible when recorded/viewed. It slightly reduces image quality.

Some cameras with EIS do not maginify the image but instead reserve the outer frame of the CCD sample. So, as long as the movement isn't substantial, the inner frame can float around inside, without any image quality loss.
Anyways, i've never tried a camera with OIS, but from what i've heard, it's vastly superiour

Rob

Dave Perry · May 7th, 2004, 06:31 AM

Brian,

I use an Optura XI and am very pleased with it. The true 16:9 was a selling point for me but the lack of LANC was a sticking point. Bought it any way and am enjoying it.

Bram Corstjens · May 28th, 2004, 06:04 AM

The 'problem' with digital image stabilisation is that your video can get blurry, especially with a 1/50 shutter speed.

Let me explain:
When you use a shutter speed of 1/50th, digital image stabilisation, zoom in a little bit and have shaky hands, the CCD will recieve a heavy shaking image. Of course the camera will compensate this shaking, but it cannot undo the blurryness caused by this shaking.

So what the Sony TRV serie for example does is to raise the shutter speed to 1/100th. This doesn't help the compensation of shaking, but because of this higher shutter speed there's less blurring.

Now, don't think digital stabilizers will generate a blurry image all of the time. When you shoot hand-held in an awkward position which causes more than normal shaking and you're a bit zoomed in AND there's not enough light causing the camera to ga back to 1/50th shutter speed you can see some small blurring on sharp edges.

For all other situations, I haven't noticed anything... the only practical drawback is that in increasing light, the camera FIRST raises the shutter speed to 1/100th and then lowers the digital gain.

Norm Couture · May 28th, 2004, 07:11 AM

As mentionned above, the image quality of a cam with EIS is affected by the higher shutter speed automatically set to 1/100 by default. In most indoor or evening situations, the shutter stays at this speed and pushes the electronic gain all the way to +15 or +18dB. Lost of noise and grain reported as "bad low-light performance" by most reviewers who do their tests in Auto mode.

With optical stabilizer, you don't have this problem.
Also, most camcorders with EIS cannot shoot stabilized 16:9 because the extra pixels usually available for re-centering the 4:3 picture are used to capture the wider picture. This contributes to a better quality widescreen as far as resolution is concerned, but you must use a tripod for stabilisation.

Mike Rehmus · May 28th, 2004, 10:27 PM

My Sony PC-110 has EIS. But with the megapixel CCD, the image quality is not in any way reduced.

April 21st, 2004, 10:27 AM	#1
Brian Schmidt Tourist Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Red Wing, MN Posts: 3	image stabalizer question can you guys help me out... i am lookin at gettin' a dv camera and i have been looking at the Canon Optura Xi Mini Dv or the Panasonic PV-DV953. for what i can tell.... its what i am looking for and price range. jsut curious what the difference is between Optical Image Stabilizer and Electronic Image Stabilization i believe both cameras hav ethe optical image stab............ just wondering the difference cuz i hear alot of hype on the image stabalization stuff. thanks,

April 30th, 2004, 12:49 AM	#3
Nick Reed Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Las Vegas, Nevada Posts: 78	image stabilizer If you can wait until July, the Panasonic GS400 will be replacing the 953. It should be a much better cam in several important areas; notably, better low-light performance and Mega OIS. In the lower priced Panasonic cams (953 and down) the image stabilization has been rather poor in comparison to Sony's. Mega OIS should be a big improvement.

May 4th, 2004, 08:55 AM	#5
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	The Optura Xi has optical IS. The Optura 300 and the new Optura 30 & 40 have electronic IS. In my opinion the Xi is a great camcorder. It does native 16:9, samples video from a 1.3mp chunk of its 2 megapixel CCD, takes great stills, has a large 3.5" LCD display and uses optical IS. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

May 7th, 2004, 06:31 AM	#8
Dave Perry Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Roanoke, VA Posts: 796	Brian, I use an Optura XI and am very pleased with it. The true 16:9 was a selling point for me but the lack of LANC was a sticking point. Bought it any way and am enjoying it. __________________ Dave Perry Cinematographer LLC Director of Photography • Editor • Digital Film Production • 540.915.2752 • daveperry.net

May 28th, 2004, 07:11 AM	#10
Norm Couture Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Quebec, QC, Canada Posts: 123	As mentionned above, the image quality of a cam with EIS is affected by the higher shutter speed automatically set to 1/100 by default. In most indoor or evening situations, the shutter stays at this speed and pushes the electronic gain all the way to +15 or +18dB. Lost of noise and grain reported as "bad low-light performance" by most reviewers who do their tests in Auto mode. With optical stabilizer, you don't have this problem. Also, most camcorders with EIS cannot shoot stabilized 16:9 because the extra pixels usually available for re-centering the 4:3 picture are used to capture the wider picture. This contributes to a better quality widescreen as far as resolution is concerned, but you must use a tripod for stabilisation. __________________ Norm :)

April 28th, 2004, 01:57 PM	#2
Xiaoli Wang Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 94	Electronic IS slightly magnifies the image and measures the amount of movement post-CCD and then adjusts it so shake is no longer visible when recorded/viewed. It slightly reduces image quality. Optical IS uses a lens element that counteracts shake by a vibration detecting gyro which adjusts an optical element/group within the lens to counteract it. Optical is superior but more expensive. From what I know either method should not be used when the camera is on a tripod for it could cause panning or movement irregularities.

May 4th, 2004, 08:45 AM	#4
Brian Schmidt Tourist Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Red Wing, MN Posts: 3	hhhhmmm......i thought the 953 allready had the Mega OIS........(?) i looked at reports and logistics of the camera and it says it has Mega OIS. i will look further...... any thoughts on the Optura Xi mini?

May 4th, 2004, 10:21 AM	#6
Guy Bruner Major Player Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Ashford, AL Posts: 937	The DV953 has OIS and Mega OIS. Mega is only used for stills. It works very well and I suspect won't be changed for the next version, GS400, if that is what is really coming to America.

May 28th, 2004, 06:04 AM	#9
Bram Corstjens Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 126	The 'problem' with digital image stabilisation is that your video can get blurry, especially with a 1/50 shutter speed. Let me explain: When you use a shutter speed of 1/50th, digital image stabilisation, zoom in a little bit and have shaky hands, the CCD will recieve a heavy shaking image. Of course the camera will compensate this shaking, but it cannot undo the blurryness caused by this shaking. So what the Sony TRV serie for example does is to raise the shutter speed to 1/100th. This doesn't help the compensation of shaking, but because of this higher shutter speed there's less blurring. Now, don't think digital stabilizers will generate a blurry image all of the time. When you shoot hand-held in an awkward position which causes more than normal shaking and you're a bit zoomed in AND there's not enough light causing the camera to ga back to 1/50th shutter speed you can see some small blurring on sharp edges. For all other situations, I haven't noticed anything... the only practical drawback is that in increasing light, the camera FIRST raises the shutter speed to 1/100th and then lowers the digital gain.

May 28th, 2004, 10:27 PM	#11
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	My Sony PC-110 has EIS. But with the megapixel CCD, the image quality is not in any way reduced. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!