One Camera Or Two? at DVinfo.net

Michael Best · April 27th, 2004, 06:03 AM

If you had a opportunity to buy one XL1S or two XL1's for
a little more would you? Meaning, for shooting live musical
performances I can get multiple angles. Or, is the XL1S
that much better that I should stick with one. Any input?

Peter Jefferson · April 27th, 2004, 07:12 AM

get a dvx100 and a dvc30 as secondary..... ;)

Kevin Lee · April 27th, 2004, 07:56 AM

1 is a neccessity. 2 is a luxury. do you need 1 or 2?

Michael Best · April 27th, 2004, 08:09 AM

Thanks for responding. I want to explore all kinds of things but
one situation is for sure, I run a large, multiple theatre complex
where there are all kinds of events, most of which will be live,
one take, situations and I want to be able to provide creative
videos of the performances. I don't know how you could achieve
that level of diversity with just one camera. If the XL1S is much
better than I would opt for a second one later or somthing else
as a second camera but from what I've read it's hard to match
color. I mean, is there a way to obtain multiple shot angles for
a live performance? I don't see how.

Michael Best · April 27th, 2004, 08:38 AM

I guess the only way I could see doing one camera is using
fillers in between shots with audio obviously recorded
separately. Any other options?

Bill Pryor · April 27th, 2004, 09:26 AM

I think in your case I would go for the two cameras. The s model is a little better, but it's sort of like the PD170 vs. the 150...minor improvements, but nothing earth-shattering. The S/N ratio is a little better in the s model, I think, and a few other little things, but nothing that make the older one obsolete.
If you're buying used cameras, be sure to check out everything very carefully...record something with each one if you can, then play the tapes back on another camera or deck to make sure there are no head alignment issues, shoot some black with both and check for little white or colored spots that would indicate a bad pixel, etc.

Shawn Mielke · April 27th, 2004, 04:34 PM

Two DVC80s!

Mike Rehmus · April 27th, 2004, 07:18 PM

I'd go for two cameras if you are going to shoot events regardless of brand or model.

However, if any of the live performances will be at night, I'd suggest you take a strong look at the VX-2100 and PD170. Much better low-level light performance.

I was reminded of that today when I shot several movie scenes in a blacked-out comedy club with only candles for light. The candles are bright spots but not blobs and no vertical smear lines either. The actors, including several with dark skins are clearly imaged.

Michael Best · April 27th, 2004, 07:31 PM

Thanks Mike, that's the kind of input I'm looking for before
dropping the cash.

Michael Best · April 27th, 2004, 07:38 PM

Would it be tough to use say a pd-150 and an xls1
together? Most of my 'low light' situations are going to
actually be well lit light shows - no candles. These events
will only be a small part of what I intend to shoot, I
will do plenty of daylight work and want that warmth.

I'm buying so your input will have it's place in waht I create.

Thanks for all your responses!

Mike Rehmus · April 27th, 2004, 09:39 PM

Warmth is a setup issue or white-balance or a post production filter. You can get what you want with any camera, one way or the other

Color matching a Canon and Sony has been said to be difficult.

I shoot with a DSR-300 and a PD150 or two for stage events.

The prosumer cameras are OK but nothing handles as fast as a pro camera with lots of buttons that are immediately accessible and lens elements that can be operated directly.

The 150 (and the 170) have less high-gain noise but the DSR-300 image processing is superior and delivers a richer picture IMO. If I were going to buy a new 1/2" camera, it would be the DSR-390 which has 170'esq low-light capability coupled with even better image processing.

Oh, and the 3 hour tape load is nice too.

Dylan Couper · April 27th, 2004, 09:42 PM

Save yourself some grief and get two cameras of the same type. You will be much happier in the long run.
I did what you are considering, bought two XL1 cameras instead of one new XL1s. Much better business decision. Besides giving multiple angles, you have a backup if something happens to your main camera. It's a good thing.

Michael Best · April 28th, 2004, 06:11 AM

I would love to 1/2" but in time.

I don't think I'll be stuck with the one or two camera issue.
My thought is to go with one XL1S now as I can pick up
another in a few months and my need is not immediate.
I'm not concerned about waiting for an XL2 because
considering two of those price wise puts me into considering
another level of camera. I guess I'm I'm really wanting
to know that the XL1S is truly a superior camera to the
XL1. XL1S prices appear to be dropping. One site did
show pictures of the differences in the two under low light
condiitons and the XL1S appeared to be much better.
They weren't selling anything, just a comparison. Again,
I can pick another one up in a few months. ThoughtS?

Michael Best · April 28th, 2004, 06:29 AM

Wow, that DSR-300 is nice though, I'll give you $3000 and
my wife? Nice little Italian girl, a little mean but striking!

Bill Pryor · April 28th, 2004, 10:01 AM

The XL1s is a little better and those who have used it say it's a little sharper than the old one. If you don't have a camera and are going to buy a new one, then the S model would be the way to go if the old one were still on the market new. I personally would always go for a new camera over a used one, unless I had been well acquainted with the owner of the used one.

You can balance an XL1 and PD150 close enough for your purposes, most likely. You go into the menu of the 150 and crank up the saturation and you'll be close. What you can't do is use the two for something like a 2-camera shoot of a speaker where you'd cut from a medium shot from one camera to a closeup of the other. There would be a fairly big difference. However, you could shoot a reverse angle of the audience with the second camera and it would work fine.

If you're getting interested in 1/2" chip cameras, I agree that the DSR300 (now the 390) is the best one available. It's also the most expensive. There are, however, two others that are significantly cheaper--the JVC GY5000 and the Panasonic DVC200. I think it's DVC200...something-200. The JVC has a flip out screen that none of the other pro cameras do (yet). The Panasonic only uses the full size cassettes, while the JVC and Sony use standard and mini.

If you don't need to have two cameras right away, then your idea of getting one now and then another later is the best plan, in my opinion. You might also want to look at the PD170 and the Panasonic DVX100a. Both are 1/3" chip cameras like the XL1s, and every one has some advantage or disadvantage in relation to the other. They are all fairly close in image quality. There's also a JVC (something)-300, which is a 1/3" chip camera that nobody ever seems to talk about much. Its specs show a higher resolution than the other 3, and it's cheap...but it gets no respect.

April 27th, 2004, 06:03 AM	#1
Michael Best Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Oceanside Harbor, CA Posts: 446	One Camera Or Two? If you had a opportunity to buy one XL1S or two XL1's for a little more would you? Meaning, for shooting live musical performances I can get multiple angles. Or, is the XL1S that much better that I should stick with one. Any input?

April 27th, 2004, 04:34 PM	#7
Shawn Mielke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Santa Rosa, California Posts: 745	Two DVC80s! __________________ Breakthrough In Grey Room

April 27th, 2004, 07:18 PM	#8
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	I'd go for two cameras if you are going to shoot events regardless of brand or model. However, if any of the live performances will be at night, I'd suggest you take a strong look at the VX-2100 and PD170. Much better low-level light performance. I was reminded of that today when I shot several movie scenes in a blacked-out comedy club with only candles for light. The candles are bright spots but not blobs and no vertical smear lines either. The actors, including several with dark skins are clearly imaged. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

April 27th, 2004, 09:39 PM	#11
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	Warmth is a setup issue or white-balance or a post production filter. You can get what you want with any camera, one way or the other Color matching a Canon and Sony has been said to be difficult. I shoot with a DSR-300 and a PD150 or two for stage events. The prosumer cameras are OK but nothing handles as fast as a pro camera with lots of buttons that are immediately accessible and lens elements that can be operated directly. The 150 (and the 170) have less high-gain noise but the DSR-300 image processing is superior and delivers a richer picture IMO. If I were going to buy a new 1/2" camera, it would be the DSR-390 which has 170'esq low-light capability coupled with even better image processing. Oh, and the 3 hour tape load is nice too. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

April 27th, 2004, 09:42 PM	#12
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	Save yourself some grief and get two cameras of the same type. You will be much happier in the long run. I did what you are considering, bought two XL1 cameras instead of one new XL1s. Much better business decision. Besides giving multiple angles, you have a backup if something happens to your main camera. It's a good thing. __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

April 27th, 2004, 07:12 AM	#2
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	get a dvx100 and a dvc30 as secondary..... ;)

April 27th, 2004, 07:56 AM	#3
Kevin Lee Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 224	1 is a neccessity. 2 is a luxury. do you need 1 or 2?

April 27th, 2004, 08:09 AM	#4
Michael Best Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Oceanside Harbor, CA Posts: 446	Thanks for responding. I want to explore all kinds of things but one situation is for sure, I run a large, multiple theatre complex where there are all kinds of events, most of which will be live, one take, situations and I want to be able to provide creative videos of the performances. I don't know how you could achieve that level of diversity with just one camera. If the XL1S is much better than I would opt for a second one later or somthing else as a second camera but from what I've read it's hard to match color. I mean, is there a way to obtain multiple shot angles for a live performance? I don't see how.

April 27th, 2004, 08:38 AM	#5
Michael Best Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Oceanside Harbor, CA Posts: 446	I guess the only way I could see doing one camera is using fillers in between shots with audio obviously recorded separately. Any other options?

April 27th, 2004, 09:26 AM	#6
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	I think in your case I would go for the two cameras. The s model is a little better, but it's sort of like the PD170 vs. the 150...minor improvements, but nothing earth-shattering. The S/N ratio is a little better in the s model, I think, and a few other little things, but nothing that make the older one obsolete. If you're buying used cameras, be sure to check out everything very carefully...record something with each one if you can, then play the tapes back on another camera or deck to make sure there are no head alignment issues, shoot some black with both and check for little white or colored spots that would indicate a bad pixel, etc.

April 27th, 2004, 07:31 PM	#9
Michael Best Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Oceanside Harbor, CA Posts: 446	Thanks Mike, that's the kind of input I'm looking for before dropping the cash.

April 27th, 2004, 07:38 PM	#10
Michael Best Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Oceanside Harbor, CA Posts: 446	Would it be tough to use say a pd-150 and an xls1 together? Most of my 'low light' situations are going to actually be well lit light shows - no candles. These events will only be a small part of what I intend to shoot, I will do plenty of daylight work and want that warmth. I'm buying so your input will have it's place in waht I create. Thanks for all your responses!

April 28th, 2004, 06:11 AM	#13
Michael Best Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Oceanside Harbor, CA Posts: 446	I would love to 1/2" but in time. I don't think I'll be stuck with the one or two camera issue. My thought is to go with one XL1S now as I can pick up another in a few months and my need is not immediate. I'm not concerned about waiting for an XL2 because considering two of those price wise puts me into considering another level of camera. I guess I'm I'm really wanting to know that the XL1S is truly a superior camera to the XL1. XL1S prices appear to be dropping. One site did show pictures of the differences in the two under low light condiitons and the XL1S appeared to be much better. They weren't selling anything, just a comparison. Again, I can pick another one up in a few months. ThoughtS?

April 28th, 2004, 06:29 AM	#14
Michael Best Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Oceanside Harbor, CA Posts: 446	Wow, that DSR-300 is nice though, I'll give you $3000 and my wife? Nice little Italian girl, a little mean but striking!

April 28th, 2004, 10:01 AM	#15
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	The XL1s is a little better and those who have used it say it's a little sharper than the old one. If you don't have a camera and are going to buy a new one, then the S model would be the way to go if the old one were still on the market new. I personally would always go for a new camera over a used one, unless I had been well acquainted with the owner of the used one. You can balance an XL1 and PD150 close enough for your purposes, most likely. You go into the menu of the 150 and crank up the saturation and you'll be close. What you can't do is use the two for something like a 2-camera shoot of a speaker where you'd cut from a medium shot from one camera to a closeup of the other. There would be a fairly big difference. However, you could shoot a reverse angle of the audience with the second camera and it would work fine. If you're getting interested in 1/2" chip cameras, I agree that the DSR300 (now the 390) is the best one available. It's also the most expensive. There are, however, two others that are significantly cheaper--the JVC GY5000 and the Panasonic DVC200. I think it's DVC200...something-200. The JVC has a flip out screen that none of the other pro cameras do (yet). The Panasonic only uses the full size cassettes, while the JVC and Sony use standard and mini. If you don't need to have two cameras right away, then your idea of getting one now and then another later is the best plan, in my opinion. You might also want to look at the PD170 and the Panasonic DVX100a. Both are 1/3" chip cameras like the XL1s, and every one has some advantage or disadvantage in relation to the other. They are all fairly close in image quality. There's also a JVC (something)-300, which is a 1/3" chip camera that nobody ever seems to talk about much. Its specs show a higher resolution than the other 3, and it's cheap...but it gets no respect.