blank firing gun

Dylan Couper · August 23rd, 2004, 07:43 PM

Deniz, consider hiring an independent armourer. If you are an indie project you might be able to get someone to do it very cheaply, and will likely bring their own blank gun. This will save you that expense, and will keep you a hell of a lot safer. I work with an armourer quite a bit here, and I get to hear the blank firing safety speech often enough that I'd just skip doing it myself and do it in post if I didn't have an armourer.

Mike Rinkunas · August 24th, 2004, 07:47 AM

Deniz,

Something else to consider are your local gun laws. eventhough blank-firing guns (should) only fire blanks, the old adage holds true in the eyes of others: "if it looks like a duck, and sounds like a duck, it must be a duck!"

Espeically in the NJ, NY areas where gun laws are very strict with regards to handguns. A possible recommendation might be to film your gun scene in PA where gun laws are more lax. If you are going to work in NJ, do a search on legal firearms via the NRA or google just to ensure the blank firearm is not a replica of a banned gun!

Then again as Dylan pointed out, just get an armourer and this is all their job to worry about!

Just my 2 cents,
~Mike

Jesse Bekas · August 24th, 2004, 08:59 AM

Technically, pellet guns are considered to be full blown firearms in NJ. The laws are stupid strict. A guy up the street from me got pulled over and had a pellet gun in his car (he was coming home from cmaping in PA), which was visible. The cop went nuts pulled him from the car, hands where I can see em, kinda thing. When things calmed down and the guy was in the backseat of the cop car, he said it was just a pellet rifle. The cop responded, that's what he'd figured, but it was procedure to treat any firearm-looking-object as such. That guy got in a trouble for having the gun. That being said, I have shot (video) with pellet guns involved and never had anyone report me, but it was still a stupid risk to take.

Deniz Turkmen · August 24th, 2004, 05:19 PM

I posted the same question over at dvxuser.com and someone reccomended this company:

http://www.creative-effects.com/Special_Effects_Rentals/Guns/guns.html

I think I'll use one of thier guns and avoid the hassle of blanks -- especially since I'm shooting in NJ.

John Jaquish · July 6th, 2007, 08:50 AM

So far for my film, we've been using airsoft guns and figuring on putting in a muzzle flash/explosion in post, but I'm thinking about using blanks authenticity, and had a couple of questions:

1. What's the difference between a real gun (firing blanks) and a blank gun?

2. I know it probably differs by state, but can you own a gun without a permit/license, if you use it only for firing blanks?

Some of my co-workers are experienced gun owners (that is, with live rounds), so I would probably ask them for help if I were to go this route.

Giroud Francois · July 6th, 2007, 10:30 AM

i got a box full of airsoft gun and blank gun (and a real one).
It is difficult to differentiate them (even for the plastic ones).
i think in USA , the airsoft gun must have the muzzle colored in red or orange.
1. What's the difference between a real gun (firing blanks) and a blank gun?
a real blank gun is made for this use, and has minor technical differences.
the new law for blank gun in europe allows only the gas to be released on top of the gun (so it is pretty useless for movies).
Still many blank guns can exhaust gas as real ones, but caliber is different (8mm instead 9mm for exampl) so you can not make mistake by using real ammunition.
And obvioulsy you can find real gun modified to be blank gun, so they have a smaller tube or partially obstructed.

My opinion is that airsoft guns are great, because they can cause no arm, they look and feel real (some are made from metal, some are just plastic but heavy, and some are plastic and lightweigth) and they are cheap.
you can find many models, from the small gun up to the big sniper rifle.
For the ego of actor, take the ones that look and feel like real (while most people underestimate the weight of a real gun, so if you use real ones, they usually find them too heavy) except for fight scene,where light plastic is safer.
On location, you never know when some stupid guy start to be smart with such device, and this is when accident happens.
there is a nice software called EffectsLab (previously AlamDV) that does muzzle flash for guns.
http://fxhome.com/

Jim Andrada · July 6th, 2007, 04:10 PM

One other thought would be to contact a local gun club. It might be possible to get someone to fire a pistol for you on their firing range.

I know there are clubs in NJ. I used to shoot in pistol league in Massachusetts and they were a real pain in the ... in so far as getting a pistol permit, but in the end you could always get one if you had no record and a membership in a club that had appropriate facitities. Our club had both indoor and outdoor ranges.

Or you could come to Arizona!

By the way, I know from personal experience that you can indeed have a bunch of skin ripped off your hand if your hold on an automatic is a little too high up on the grip. Only good part is that it happens so fast that you don't feel anything ... until afterwards! And it can be a lot worse than losing some skin. I was kucky.

Caution is the watchword.

Another by the way - don't they still use blank guns to start track and field events? When I played in band in college, the drillmaster had a starter's pistol that he would use to signal changes in formation. No muzzle flash though, as I recall.

Giroud Francois · July 6th, 2007, 04:54 PM

for the flash, i could say that video gives poor result (flashes are short), but they are perfectly visible especially on dark background.
As we all know, movie are all except reality, so making flashes on post will give you the chance to make over exagerated hollywood flashes (or people will believe they are wrong).
And i forget, the noise made by such blank gun is crazy, can make you deaf (or give a a big grin to your actors, looks awful), it is another reason to use airsoft gun.

Bruce Foreman · July 6th, 2007, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deniz Turkmen

I need a blank firing handgun that has muzzle flare for a movie I'm shooting. The gun I have makes only the sound -- no flash. Does anyone know where I could purchase a blank gun that will have a flash? I'm trying not to add them in post?

Thanks

You have some fair advice already but here is mine.

Modern ammunition carried by law enforcement and by liscensed citizens is usually made with gunpowders blended to eliminate or reduce muzzle flash.

Muzzle flash is normally not visible in daylight or fairly well lit interiors, and may or may not be visible at night depending on barrel length and specific velocity loading.

Practice ammo will usually show muzzle flash at night in reduced levels of illumination, and duty/carry ammo may show a fair amount of flash out of very short barrels.

Hollywood, of course, ignores facts and adds flash and unrealistic sounds (Road To Perdition, where every time a 1911 .45 was drawn with one hand you heard the slide being racked-usually a two handed operation).

I suggest using airsoft replicas and simply paint the orange tip black, and if you must, add muzzle flash in post. Do not use blanks.

I teach Defensive Handgun and some of the shooting I put my students through is at night and even with cheap practice ammo you might be surprised at how little flash we see.

Bruce Foreman · July 6th, 2007, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Jaquish

So far for my film, we've been using airsoft guns and figuring on putting in a muzzle flash/explosion in post, but I'm thinking about using blanks authenticity, and had a couple of questions:

1. What's the difference between a real gun (firing blanks) and a blank gun?

2. I know it probably differs by state, but can you own a gun without a permit/license, if you use it only for firing blanks?

Some of my co-workers are experienced gun owners (that is, with live rounds), so I would probably ask them for help if I were to go this route.

1. Blank firing replica guns use are "chambered" for a unique case size so real ammunition can not be loaded and chambered in them.

2. If a state requires a permit or license to purchase or own a gun, it doesn't matter that you may only intend to use it with blanks.

I would use airsoft or totally inert replicas for filmmaking. Ring's makes a polystyrene "dummy" gun that is so accurate in size and form that it actually fits the real holsters the replica imitates. While normally produced in blue polystyrene (hence the term "blue gun"...Most of us who instruct use these to demonstrate technique safely), these can also be ordered in black.

Many movie props are actually Ring's products.

I have a "blue gun" full size Glock 17 and a rubber replica of a Remington Rand 1911A1 .45 (bought it from a guy used to carry it on maneuvers while in the army. The officers had to have something in the holster and knowing they would not be drawing and firing, saved both carry weight and the hassle of checking a real one out of and back in the armory).

Andy Graham · July 7th, 2007, 04:58 AM

I've posted this before a while back but it seems relevant in here, these are pretty realistic weapons from a company in England called Model Guns (they post internationally by the way). This is the route i will be taking on my next film although they are pretty expensive.

They are not real in any way apart from how real they look and act, they use reusable shells where you just have to replace the cap (charge) and they need no license.

video link
http://www.box.net/shared/static/bkqe2mtrmi.wmv

website link
http://www.modelguns.co.uk/index.htm

enjoy

Andy.

Ray Bell · July 7th, 2007, 07:04 AM

Here's a solution for you...

http://forums.creativecow.net/articl...ting/index.htm

John Jaquish · July 7th, 2007, 08:56 AM

Thanks for the tips.

Even though I still think all the muzzle flashes I've seen done in post look kind of cheesy, that's probably the way I'll be going considering the expense, safety and legal issues of using a real gun with blanks.

Greg Boston · July 7th, 2007, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Foreman

Blank firing replica guns use are "chambered" for a unique case size so real ammunition can not be loaded and chambered in them.

I used to have a blank pistol back in the mid 70's. It used .22 blanks and had double action. The barrel however, had a unique milling that left an obstruction present towards the muzzle to prevent using real .22 rounds.

A couple years ago, I was looking online for blank rounds to put in my real .357 for gun training my lab. They are available online, but I could never find them stocked at local gun shops.

-gb-

Stephen Claus · July 10th, 2007, 10:23 PM

There are so many potential problems with blanks and since you will probably have to add a flash in post anyway, you'd be better off with airsoft guns. It's real easy to add the bang, plus you'll have complete control of it, unlike trying to record the sound of the blank.

A couple years ago I did massive research on airsoft guns because I was considering getting into it as a hobby (it didn't happen). There is a HUGE variety of very realistic looking guns available, for a fraction of the cost of real ones.

August 23rd, 2004, 07:43 PM	#16
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	Deniz, consider hiring an independent armourer. If you are an indie project you might be able to get someone to do it very cheaply, and will likely bring their own blank gun. This will save you that expense, and will keep you a hell of a lot safer. I work with an armourer quite a bit here, and I get to hear the blank firing safety speech often enough that I'd just skip doing it myself and do it in post if I didn't have an armourer. __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

July 7th, 2007, 04:58 AM	#26
Andy Graham Major Player Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Lanark,Scotland Posts: 736	I've posted this before a while back but it seems relevant in here, these are pretty realistic weapons from a company in England called Model Guns (they post internationally by the way). This is the route i will be taking on my next film although they are pretty expensive. They are not real in any way apart from how real they look and act, they use reusable shells where you just have to replace the cap (charge) and they need no license. video link http://www.box.net/shared/static/bkqe2mtrmi.wmv website link http://www.modelguns.co.uk/index.htm enjoy Andy. __________________ Actor: "where would that light be coming from?" DP: "same place as the music" -Andrew Lesnie-

July 10th, 2007, 10:23 PM	#30
Stephen Claus Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Rochester, NH Posts: 66	I think airsoft is the way to go. There are so many potential problems with blanks and since you will probably have to add a flash in post anyway, you'd be better off with airsoft guns. It's real easy to add the bang, plus you'll have complete control of it, unlike trying to record the sound of the blank. A couple years ago I did massive research on airsoft guns because I was considering getting into it as a hobby (it didn't happen). There is a HUGE variety of very realistic looking guns available, for a fraction of the cost of real ones.

August 24th, 2004, 07:47 AM	#17
Mike Rinkunas Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Allentown, PA Posts: 134	Deniz, Something else to consider are your local gun laws. eventhough blank-firing guns (should) only fire blanks, the old adage holds true in the eyes of others: "if it looks like a duck, and sounds like a duck, it must be a duck!" Espeically in the NJ, NY areas where gun laws are very strict with regards to handguns. A possible recommendation might be to film your gun scene in PA where gun laws are more lax. If you are going to work in NJ, do a search on legal firearms via the NRA or google just to ensure the blank firearm is not a replica of a banned gun! Then again as Dylan pointed out, just get an armourer and this is all their job to worry about! Just my 2 cents, ~Mike

August 24th, 2004, 08:59 AM	#18
Jesse Bekas Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ridgefield Park, New Jersey, USA Posts: 572	Technically, pellet guns are considered to be full blown firearms in NJ. The laws are stupid strict. A guy up the street from me got pulled over and had a pellet gun in his car (he was coming home from cmaping in PA), which was visible. The cop went nuts pulled him from the car, hands where I can see em, kinda thing. When things calmed down and the guy was in the backseat of the cop car, he said it was just a pellet rifle. The cop responded, that's what he'd figured, but it was procedure to treat any firearm-looking-object as such. That guy got in a trouble for having the gun. That being said, I have shot (video) with pellet guns involved and never had anyone report me, but it was still a stupid risk to take.

August 24th, 2004, 05:19 PM	#19
Deniz Turkmen Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: CA Posts: 166	I posted the same question over at dvxuser.com and someone reccomended this company: http://www.creative-effects.com/Special_Effects_Rentals/Guns/guns.html I think I'll use one of thier guns and avoid the hassle of blanks -- especially since I'm shooting in NJ.

July 6th, 2007, 08:50 AM	#20
John Jaquish New Boot Join Date: May 2007 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 21	So far for my film, we've been using airsoft guns and figuring on putting in a muzzle flash/explosion in post, but I'm thinking about using blanks authenticity, and had a couple of questions: 1. What's the difference between a real gun (firing blanks) and a blank gun? 2. I know it probably differs by state, but can you own a gun without a permit/license, if you use it only for firing blanks? Some of my co-workers are experienced gun owners (that is, with live rounds), so I would probably ask them for help if I were to go this route.

July 6th, 2007, 10:30 AM	#21
Giroud Francois Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: switzerland Posts: 2,133	i got a box full of airsoft gun and blank gun (and a real one). It is difficult to differentiate them (even for the plastic ones). i think in USA , the airsoft gun must have the muzzle colored in red or orange. 1. What's the difference between a real gun (firing blanks) and a blank gun? a real blank gun is made for this use, and has minor technical differences. the new law for blank gun in europe allows only the gas to be released on top of the gun (so it is pretty useless for movies). Still many blank guns can exhaust gas as real ones, but caliber is different (8mm instead 9mm for exampl) so you can not make mistake by using real ammunition. And obvioulsy you can find real gun modified to be blank gun, so they have a smaller tube or partially obstructed. My opinion is that airsoft guns are great, because they can cause no arm, they look and feel real (some are made from metal, some are just plastic but heavy, and some are plastic and lightweigth) and they are cheap. you can find many models, from the small gun up to the big sniper rifle. For the ego of actor, take the ones that look and feel like real (while most people underestimate the weight of a real gun, so if you use real ones, they usually find them too heavy) except for fight scene,where light plastic is safer. On location, you never know when some stupid guy start to be smart with such device, and this is when accident happens. there is a nice software called EffectsLab (previously AlamDV) that does muzzle flash for guns. http://fxhome.com/

July 6th, 2007, 04:10 PM	#22
Jim Andrada Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Tucson AZ Posts: 2,211	One other thought would be to contact a local gun club. It might be possible to get someone to fire a pistol for you on their firing range. I know there are clubs in NJ. I used to shoot in pistol league in Massachusetts and they were a real pain in the ... in so far as getting a pistol permit, but in the end you could always get one if you had no record and a membership in a club that had appropriate facitities. Our club had both indoor and outdoor ranges. Or you could come to Arizona! By the way, I know from personal experience that you can indeed have a bunch of skin ripped off your hand if your hold on an automatic is a little too high up on the grip. Only good part is that it happens so fast that you don't feel anything ... until afterwards! And it can be a lot worse than losing some skin. I was kucky. Caution is the watchword. Another by the way - don't they still use blank guns to start track and field events? When I played in band in college, the drillmaster had a starter's pistol that he would use to signal changes in formation. No muzzle flash though, as I recall.

July 6th, 2007, 04:54 PM	#23
Giroud Francois Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: switzerland Posts: 2,133	for the flash, i could say that video gives poor result (flashes are short), but they are perfectly visible especially on dark background. As we all know, movie are all except reality, so making flashes on post will give you the chance to make over exagerated hollywood flashes (or people will believe they are wrong). And i forget, the noise made by such blank gun is crazy, can make you deaf (or give a a big grin to your actors, looks awful), it is another reason to use airsoft gun.

July 7th, 2007, 07:04 AM	#27
Ray Bell Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,414	Here's a solution for you... http://forums.creativecow.net/articl...ting/index.htm

July 7th, 2007, 08:56 AM	#28
John Jaquish New Boot Join Date: May 2007 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 21	Thanks for the tips. Even though I still think all the muzzle flashes I've seen done in post look kind of cheesy, that's probably the way I'll be going considering the expense, safety and legal issues of using a real gun with blanks.