Shooting minatures at DVinfo.net

Wayne Maxwell · December 7th, 2004, 10:55 PM

Not sure if this fits here but here goes.

Does anyone have any experience/ideas on shooting miniatures with a dv cam? I know on a film cam they use at least a 1/6th scale replica of the vehicle and overcrank the camera to about 70fps while filming the movement of the miniature. But there is no way (that I know of) to "overcrank" a dv cam.

I'm shooting with an XL1-s

Any info would be great. Thanks

Jesse Bekas · December 8th, 2004, 02:12 AM

I don't think any DV cameras can overcrank in any way shape or form in this price range (and several above it).

You might want to look into software that fixes up slomo-ed 60i video.

Check out this thread.

Rob Lohman · December 8th, 2004, 05:53 AM

You cannot overcrank a DV camera indeed. Another way would
be to use stop-motion with a still camera (or your DV camera),
but that would require fast amounts of time to test and shoot
stuff.

Nick Jushchyshyn · December 8th, 2004, 11:00 AM

For overcranking, you could try shooting interlaced and then de-interlace in post to get 60fps from an NTSC camera.

If the action is fast, you can get away with more.
This tutorial explains how to create a jet fly by using stills of a model jet.

One of the big giveaways on miniature shots is depth of field. There's a more obvious (shallow) depth of field in miniature shots than full scale. One of the best things you can do is shoot outdoor shots .... outdoors. Take advantage of all that sunlight. :)

Finally, in most feature film situations today, miniature shots are significantly augmented with CGI and digital matte painting enhancements. The shots are more a resource for a larger digital composite than a "final" that's shown on screen as it was captured in camera.

Hope this helps.
Have fun

Jesse Bekas · December 8th, 2004, 11:56 AM

Won't de-interlacing 60i produce (lower rez) 30p?

The one way you (and unless you get rich overnight, I don't mean you, Wayne) could get DV slomo would be to shoot on one of the $60,000+ HiDef DV cams (Viper, Genesis, etc...) that actually shoots in 60p. You could slow it down to half speed, and still have the exact same motion characteristics as 30p footage.

Nick Jushchyshyn · December 8th, 2004, 02:02 PM

Most NLEs these days seem to automatically de-interlace 30i to become 30p at 50% speed. You get lower res, yes, but, in effect, you get 60 images per second played back at 30 frames per second. Not as effective as 70fps played back at 24fps, but still better than no over cranking at all.

The overcranking really only applys when there is movement on the miniature set anyway. (Water, dust, smoke, fire, etc.) If the model is static and only the relationship between the camera and model changes, the speed changes are not reall needed at all since you can create the "speed" of motion by scaling the motion itself and along with shutter speed, rather than frame-rate.

Wayne Maxwell · December 10th, 2004, 01:14 AM

Hey thanks for the responses guys.

Great info. I've got a few ideas I'm going to try. I'll let ya know how it turns out.

December 7th, 2004, 10:55 PM	#1
Wayne Maxwell New Boot Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Sacramento CA Posts: 23	Shooting minatures Not sure if this fits here but here goes. Does anyone have any experience/ideas on shooting miniatures with a dv cam? I know on a film cam they use at least a 1/6th scale replica of the vehicle and overcrank the camera to about 70fps while filming the movement of the miniature. But there is no way (that I know of) to "overcrank" a dv cam. I'm shooting with an XL1-s Any info would be great. Thanks __________________ Doc

December 8th, 2004, 05:53 AM	#3
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	You cannot overcrank a DV camera indeed. Another way would be to use stop-motion with a still camera (or your DV camera), but that would require fast amounts of time to test and shoot stuff. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

December 10th, 2004, 01:14 AM	#7
Wayne Maxwell New Boot Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Sacramento CA Posts: 23	Hey thanks for the responses guys. Great info. I've got a few ideas I'm going to try. I'll let ya know how it turns out. __________________ Doc

December 8th, 2004, 02:12 AM	#2
Jesse Bekas Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ridgefield Park, New Jersey, USA Posts: 572	I don't think any DV cameras can overcrank in any way shape or form in this price range (and several above it). You might want to look into software that fixes up slomo-ed 60i video. Check out this thread.

December 8th, 2004, 11:00 AM	#4
Nick Jushchyshyn Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA Posts: 548	For overcranking, you could try shooting interlaced and then de-interlace in post to get 60fps from an NTSC camera. If the action is fast, you can get away with more. This tutorial explains how to create a jet fly by using stills of a model jet. One of the big giveaways on miniature shots is depth of field. There's a more obvious (shallow) depth of field in miniature shots than full scale. One of the best things you can do is shoot outdoor shots .... outdoors. Take advantage of all that sunlight. :) Finally, in most feature film situations today, miniature shots are significantly augmented with CGI and digital matte painting enhancements. The shots are more a resource for a larger digital composite than a "final" that's shown on screen as it was captured in camera. Hope this helps. Have fun

December 8th, 2004, 11:56 AM	#5
Jesse Bekas Major Player Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Ridgefield Park, New Jersey, USA Posts: 572	Won't de-interlacing 60i produce (lower rez) 30p? The one way you (and unless you get rich overnight, I don't mean you, Wayne) could get DV slomo would be to shoot on one of the $60,000+ HiDef DV cams (Viper, Genesis, etc...) that actually shoots in 60p. You could slow it down to half speed, and still have the exact same motion characteristics as 30p footage.

December 8th, 2004, 02:02 PM	#6
Nick Jushchyshyn Major Player Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Philadelphia, PA, USA Posts: 548	Most NLEs these days seem to automatically de-interlace 30i to become 30p at 50% speed. You get lower res, yes, but, in effect, you get 60 images per second played back at 30 frames per second. Not as effective as 70fps played back at 24fps, but still better than no over cranking at all. The overcranking really only applys when there is movement on the miniature set anyway. (Water, dust, smoke, fire, etc.) If the model is static and only the relationship between the camera and model changes, the speed changes are not reall needed at all since you can create the "speed" of motion by scaling the motion itself and along with shutter speed, rather than frame-rate.