OPEN WATER vs. 28 DAYS LATER (29.97 vs 25) at

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Old February 11th, 2005, 11:18 PM   #1
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OPEN WATER vs. 28 DAYS LATER (29.97 vs 25)

Both movies made millions.
Both movies were shot in DV format @ 720 pixels of horizontal resolution.
Both movies were blown up to film
Both movies are now availbale on DVD

Now that a new camera is available with 3 CCD's, yet allot more resolution, we are now wondering which format from this new camera we should choose to shoot OUR VERSION of a million dollar blockbuster hit. In the event we don't make millions, We atleast want the people who is watching our show (at the festivals, at the local theaters, family friends, etc...) to atleast be able to say "Wow, that was nice...looked just like a Hollywood movie Bobby!".

Therefore, we ponder the method in which to shoot our HDV cameras for two delivery formats....
# 1) to actually make a print to film and have a few huge rolls of 35mm film in your refrigerator under the meatloaf......
# 2) to make a DVD that has the cadence of #1 that movie-goers have come to accept as a 'fictional motion-picture' telling a 1.5-2.0 hour narrative story.

What are our options?? So far the options are...

A> CF24

B> 60i

C> CF25

D> 50i

All four formats can effectively be converted to a roll of 35 millimeter film and/or a Standard Digital DVD no problem. SO which format do we use to capture our footage during production?

- Making a quality product is not easy, so lets FORGET EASE.
- True Post-Production takes time, so lets FORGET RENDERING TIMES & SPEED.
- If we were filthy rich, we wouldn't be here discussing a $3-5k camera, so lets FORGET UNCOMPRESSED HD CAPTURING via COMPONENT OUT.

Let's deal with whats's obtainable, whats affordable, whats realistic, what's foreseeable.......and concentrate on one thing and one thing ONLY: "PURE-QUALITY" of that 35mm roll of film or final DVD.

The Jury seems to still be out. Can we call them back in again please????

What's the verdict for Americans & Japanese (ntsc native)?? A, B, C or D????
What's the verdict for the rest of the world (pal native)?? A, B, C or D????


For me persoanlly, I have a $45,000 movie project coming up that will never see film. Staright to DVD headed for Blockbuster Video. And I need to make a decision.

- SHannon W. Rawls
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Old February 11th, 2005, 11:38 PM   #2
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Bandpro, Sony, and CBS determined that CF 25 is what they wanted to/needed to use in order to best create the cadence of film.
However, if you're straight to DVD and want a cadence, then I'd still shoot CF25, because it's a nice look. The look of CF24 isn't the same as 24p, but it's a nice artistic choice. But you'll need to insert pulldown, and mess with frame matching, so it will be slow and potentially risky if you want good slo mo.
Oops, but if it's fast action, you definitely want 60i and then cadence it to 24fps after, and get the size and semi-look of cadence that it gives you with little sacrifice to the motion overall.
So.....tough choices, but that's what makes it fun. I guess part of the "doing whatever it takes" to get a good look means spending a lot of time shooting for practice and finding what YOU like best.
Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot
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Old February 11th, 2005, 11:55 PM   #3
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*claps* *applause* Well Said DSE.....

From the Sundance Media Group Defense Dream Team, we have a verdict of "CF25" universaly for USA & UK and also for FILM & DVD.

Any more verdicts???

Going once............going twice.............three times.............
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Old February 12th, 2005, 12:53 AM   #4
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I'd shoot 60i and keep all my options open going into post. Labs are used to blowing up 60i, plus you don't lose any data.
Michael Struthers
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Old February 12th, 2005, 07:45 AM   #5
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I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to this stuff, but I did some test footage in CF 25 and 30 and it didn't look like anything I couldn't do in After Effects with 60i footage.

What am I missing?
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Old February 12th, 2005, 10:12 AM   #6
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do lots of tests. pick the scene you think will cause the most problems and try the different setting that are available.
also, your could post some of the mt2 test, then everyone here can play with it to help you come up with the best choice.
good luck
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Old February 12th, 2005, 07:45 PM   #7
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I would actaully prefer to shoot either 50i or CF25.

Why I think 50i is the best frame rate to go with if you do not have true 24p.

1. 50i will give you a perfect frame rate for down converting to PAL. You also get to either make your PAL footage 50i or 25p from your 50i HDV material.

2. Using a 4% audio and speed change with de-interlaced 50i will give you a real 24p HDV (slighlty softer). Of course going down to SD for DVD would look great for 24p since the interpolated lines from de-interlacing will be thrown out.

3. Our 4% shifted 24p material can be blown up for film with a 1 to 1 frame ratio.

4. A 3:2 pulldown can be applied to our 4% shifted 24p material to give us a true 30 fps NTSC frame rate.

To get of these formats the only part of your material that ever gets interpolated is the audio other than de-interlacing for progressive HDV footage. No frames are interpolated to create new frames. Even the 3:2 pulldown doesn't change your footage. It only adds duplicated fields. If you apply a reverse 3:2 pulldown you will get your exact 24p frame you started with.

If you shoot 60i you will still need to de-interlace your footage but it will also have to be interpolated to get to 24p, 25p, or 50i by blending or creating new frames which messes with your footage. There is no way to get from 60i or 30p without changing the pixels in each frame.

CF25 is just as good as 50i except you loose the option of making a 50i PAL SD version. All other formats will give you the same results as 50i.
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Old February 14th, 2005, 06:32 PM   #8
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There's really different demands for U.S. vs overseas distribution and depending on what your project is and budget may require different solutions. It may make sense to find that extra money now rather than a lot later.

Steve Lustgarten
Feature Film Distribution
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