What video codec of today is most closest to DV???? at DVinfo.net

Brent Marks · February 17th, 2005, 11:52 PM

What video codec of today is most closest to DV????

Something that will at least take 13gigs (1hour of dv)

and take it down to 2-3gigs

What the codec that can best do this and retain as close to DV quality as possible?

thanks!

Glenn Chan · February 18th, 2005, 12:08 AM

Is this for (offline) editing, archival, or something else?

Brent Marks · February 18th, 2005, 12:21 AM

Hi-End video distribution thru the Net...

Glenn Chan · February 18th, 2005, 12:29 AM

The best strategy for the web is to use multiple codecs and let people choose a version.

Windows Media - Download Windows Media Encoder for free and you're set.

Quicktime - Get the pro Sorenson codecs... plus possibly something like Procoder.

For audio, the qdesign codec might be worth it if you want wider compatibility.

2- 2-3GB downloads will cost you about a dollar for the bandwidth for each download. An hour can be compressed down to 800MB/hr or less with excellent quality (depends heavily on your footage). It will also be better in the sense that it downloads faster, and more people will stick around waiting for it to download.

Brent Marks · February 18th, 2005, 12:31 AM

Bandwidth isn't an issue... I have 200megabits a month to use...

I am asking what do you guys think is the best codec close to DV?

that will take down DV about 5to1?

thanks so much guys

Glenn Chan · February 18th, 2005, 01:40 AM

200 megabits = 25MB
Even if you meant gigabytes, that's not that much.

If run over your bandwidth (provided your web host doesn't kick you off first... read their terms of service carefully) then you may be hit with overuse charges. Canaca.com charges $6/GB. Other hosts just cut you off, which is a little better.

Quote:

I am asking what do you guys think is the best codec close to DV?

that will take down DV about 5to1?

The aforementioned codecs can encode at whatever bitrate you set it at, which determines the final file size and level of compression. You could set it to compress 25:1 (DV is already compressed 5:1), which would be DV compressed 5:1.

Brent Marks · February 18th, 2005, 06:45 AM

200megabits is 64,000+ gigs

James Connors · February 18th, 2005, 07:23 AM

Glenn, you've fallen into the bandwidth trap I'm afraid. Popular usage (ie incorrect!) of bandwidth by bad hosts makes people think that bandwidth is the amount of data you can transfer in a month. It isn't. Thats data transfer, and is rated in gb etc. Bandwidth is the width of the pipe it travels down, ie you can send up to 100mbit/sec (forgetting about overheads) down a 100mbit pipe.

Blame the so called people in the know.

As for the original question, I wouldn't necessarily use "the best", I'd use something thats very good and used by a large proportion of people. No point using an experimental codec if nobody has it, people are unwilling to install new things on to their pc. Most people have the ability to play QT or WMV9 so stick to high quality encodes using that format. Procoder is an excellent tool to do this with, as stated above.

Patrick Jenkins · February 18th, 2005, 10:32 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Brent Marks : Hi-End video distribution thru the Net... -->>>

Divx or Mpeg4

(www.divx.com)
(www.apple.com/quicktime/)

WMV is nice, but it's not that great a codec for anything other than a Windows client.

1 hour of Divx/mpeg4 can be compressed down to ~ 350MB and still be near DVD quality at standard definition. If you want to get really compressy, you could easily halve that (or lower) and get VHS quality.

Rhett Allen · February 18th, 2005, 11:22 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Brent Marks : 200megabits is 64,000+ gigs -->>>

?

where did you come up with that math?

8 bits = 1 Byte
1024KB = 1 MB (Megabyte not Megabit)

Glenn Chan · February 18th, 2005, 06:44 PM

Apple's MPEG4 encoder isn't that great, and even the best MPEG4 encoders are equal to or worse than sorenson3/quicktime.

divX and Windows Media are about equal in quality, depending on what footage you are using. Windows Media arguably has a slight edge. Of course, you could encode your video with divX too in addition to Windows Media.

CAVEAT: The free divX encoder installs spyware onto your computer. The paid version does not.

Spyware hides in the background and collects marketing information on you. It may cause instability and/or slow performance, especially if you have lots of other spyware programs running.

Calculating bandwidth: The figure I saw didn't have per month or per second on the end, so I assumed it probably meant 200GB/month of alloted data transfer.

Patrick Jenkins · February 18th, 2005, 11:51 PM

re: spyware

It does? That's the first I've heard about it... can you provide more info?

Patrick Jenkins · February 18th, 2005, 11:52 PM

The 'free' pro version does, it's got adware built in. The free version doesn't, nor does the paid-for pro version.

Glenn Chan · February 19th, 2005, 12:25 AM

Hmm it could be adware and not spyware. In any case, it's still nefarious.

Moe Belli · February 20th, 2005, 02:46 PM

I've been experimenting with trying to find the best possible quality codec to shrink my DV files with for storage reasons.

I suggest test yourself and see with your own eyes what degree of compression you can live with. It's really the only way, you know your needs and those of your clients.

Below are some formats I personally tested.

I used a DV NTSC master AVI edited file and converted that to the format's below. The converted file was imported into into my editing program for further editing and processing (I use Avid, Edius and Premiere Pro) and viewed/evaluated on a Sony broadcast monitor.

Quicktime Photo JPEG
---------------------------

This codec does a nice job of retaining original DV quality and yet can reduce DV file size when the quality setting is changed. I use three presets, 40%, 60%, 80%.

The 80% looks great, but again, that's relevant to my needs, you might find that the quality loss at 80% is too great and need to go higher. At around 90-95%, I can't seen any diff between it and the original AVI, but then again, there isn't too much file size reduction gains at that setting.

Windows Media
--------------------

I obtained incredible results using Canopus Procoder with their built in Storage/Archival Windows Media preset.

You might be able to use the free Windows Media Encoder and get similar results, I own Procoder so I didn't bother investigating that.

I can't tell you what parameters were used in the Canopus preset, maybe MS has an archival/storage preset in Windows Media Encoder.

Anyhow, stunning results and small file sizes.

MPEG-2
----------

MPEG-2 DVD at the highest data rate allowable for that format is not that bad. I believe the data rate is around 8,500 kbps or slightly higher, can't remember right now.

Anyhow, I'm using Quicktime Photo JPEG but the others are viable as well.

I haven't tried DivX/MPEG-4 as I was satisifed with the three codecs above for my work/needs.

BTW, I also played around with Nero Digital. WOW! Awesome codec and unlilke DivX it encodes incredibly fast. Unfortunately I don't think Nero Recode can work with AVI's only imported DVD VOBs.

Hope this helps and best of luck.

MB

February 17th, 2005, 11:52 PM	#1
Brent Marks Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Houston TX and New Orleans LA Posts: 300	What video codec of today is most closest to DV???? What video codec of today is most closest to DV???? Something that will at least take 13gigs (1hour of dv) and take it down to 2-3gigs What the codec that can best do this and retain as close to DV quality as possible? thanks!

February 18th, 2005, 12:08 AM	#2
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	Is this for (offline) editing, archival, or something else?

February 18th, 2005, 12:21 AM	#3
Brent Marks Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Houston TX and New Orleans LA Posts: 300	Hi-End video distribution thru the Net...

February 18th, 2005, 12:29 AM	#4
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	The best strategy for the web is to use multiple codecs and let people choose a version. Windows Media - Download Windows Media Encoder for free and you're set. Quicktime - Get the pro Sorenson codecs... plus possibly something like Procoder. For audio, the qdesign codec might be worth it if you want wider compatibility. 2- 2-3GB downloads will cost you about a dollar for the bandwidth for each download. An hour can be compressed down to 800MB/hr or less with excellent quality (depends heavily on your footage). It will also be better in the sense that it downloads faster, and more people will stick around waiting for it to download.

February 18th, 2005, 12:31 AM	#5
Brent Marks Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Houston TX and New Orleans LA Posts: 300	Bandwidth isn't an issue... I have 200megabits a month to use... I am asking what do you guys think is the best codec close to DV? that will take down DV about 5to1? thanks so much guys

February 18th, 2005, 06:45 AM	#7
Brent Marks Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Houston TX and New Orleans LA Posts: 300	200megabits is 64,000+ gigs

February 18th, 2005, 07:23 AM	#8
James Connors Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Cardiff, UK Posts: 223	Glenn, you've fallen into the bandwidth trap I'm afraid. Popular usage (ie incorrect!) of bandwidth by bad hosts makes people think that bandwidth is the amount of data you can transfer in a month. It isn't. Thats data transfer, and is rated in gb etc. Bandwidth is the width of the pipe it travels down, ie you can send up to 100mbit/sec (forgetting about overheads) down a 100mbit pipe. Blame the so called people in the know. As for the original question, I wouldn't necessarily use "the best", I'd use something thats very good and used by a large proportion of people. No point using an experimental codec if nobody has it, people are unwilling to install new things on to their pc. Most people have the ability to play QT or WMV9 so stick to high quality encodes using that format. Procoder is an excellent tool to do this with, as stated above.

February 18th, 2005, 10:32 AM	#9
Patrick Jenkins Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 382	<<<-- Originally posted by Brent Marks : Hi-End video distribution thru the Net... -->>> Divx or Mpeg4 (www.divx.com) (www.apple.com/quicktime/) WMV is nice, but it's not that great a codec for anything other than a Windows client. 1 hour of Divx/mpeg4 can be compressed down to ~ 350MB and still be near DVD quality at standard definition. If you want to get really compressy, you could easily halve that (or lower) and get VHS quality.

February 18th, 2005, 11:22 AM	#10
Rhett Allen Major Player Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Plano, TX Posts: 607	<<<-- Originally posted by Brent Marks : 200megabits is 64,000+ gigs -->>> ? where did you come up with that math? 8 bits = 1 Byte 1024KB = 1 MB (Megabyte not Megabit)

February 18th, 2005, 06:44 PM	#11
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	Apple's MPEG4 encoder isn't that great, and even the best MPEG4 encoders are equal to or worse than sorenson3/quicktime. divX and Windows Media are about equal in quality, depending on what footage you are using. Windows Media arguably has a slight edge. Of course, you could encode your video with divX too in addition to Windows Media. CAVEAT: The free divX encoder installs spyware onto your computer. The paid version does not. Spyware hides in the background and collects marketing information on you. It may cause instability and/or slow performance, especially if you have lots of other spyware programs running. Calculating bandwidth: The figure I saw didn't have per month or per second on the end, so I assumed it probably meant 200GB/month of alloted data transfer.

February 18th, 2005, 11:51 PM	#12
Patrick Jenkins Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 382	re: spyware It does? That's the first I've heard about it... can you provide more info?

February 18th, 2005, 11:52 PM	#13
Patrick Jenkins Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 382	The 'free' pro version does, it's got adware built in. The free version doesn't, nor does the paid-for pro version.

February 19th, 2005, 12:25 AM	#14
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	Hmm it could be adware and not spyware. In any case, it's still nefarious.

February 20th, 2005, 02:46 PM	#15
Moe Belli New Boot Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Toronto Posts: 22	I've been experimenting with trying to find the best possible quality codec to shrink my DV files with for storage reasons. I suggest test yourself and see with your own eyes what degree of compression you can live with. It's really the only way, you know your needs and those of your clients. Below are some formats I personally tested. I used a DV NTSC master AVI edited file and converted that to the format's below. The converted file was imported into into my editing program for further editing and processing (I use Avid, Edius and Premiere Pro) and viewed/evaluated on a Sony broadcast monitor. Quicktime Photo JPEG --------------------------- This codec does a nice job of retaining original DV quality and yet can reduce DV file size when the quality setting is changed. I use three presets, 40%, 60%, 80%. The 80% looks great, but again, that's relevant to my needs, you might find that the quality loss at 80% is too great and need to go higher. At around 90-95%, I can't seen any diff between it and the original AVI, but then again, there isn't too much file size reduction gains at that setting. Windows Media -------------------- I obtained incredible results using Canopus Procoder with their built in Storage/Archival Windows Media preset. You might be able to use the free Windows Media Encoder and get similar results, I own Procoder so I didn't bother investigating that. I can't tell you what parameters were used in the Canopus preset, maybe MS has an archival/storage preset in Windows Media Encoder. Anyhow, stunning results and small file sizes. MPEG-2 ---------- MPEG-2 DVD at the highest data rate allowable for that format is not that bad. I believe the data rate is around 8,500 kbps or slightly higher, can't remember right now. Anyhow, I'm using Quicktime Photo JPEG but the others are viable as well. I haven't tried DivX/MPEG-4 as I was satisifed with the three codecs above for my work/needs. BTW, I also played around with Nero Digital. WOW! Awesome codec and unlilke DivX it encodes incredibly fast. Unfortunately I don't think Nero Recode can work with AVI's only imported DVD VOBs. Hope this helps and best of luck. MB