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Old October 10th, 2002, 05:52 PM   #1
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XL1s or PD-150?!?!?!?!

Hey, I'm in a HUGE PICKLE! I can't choose between the Kings of DV! XL1s or PD-150?

I know the XL1s has frame mode which makes the footage look very sexy, but then the PD-150 looks fantastic also, and performs well in low light!

but wait...it gets worse...

THE AG-DVX100 JUST CAME OUT!!! AHHH!!! And lets not forget the 24p it can do!

Heres what it comes down to for me though... All I want is the one which will produce the best quality, and not look like video (which ofcourse, all three of these don't, but i want the best...)

Yet there is another problem... I myself cannot afford this, so I am getting it instead of a Car, for my Birthday AND Hanukkah!

any help would be appreciated!

NOTE: I doubt I would take advantage of the interchangable lenses on the XL1s. Basically I will keep everything default, since I am low on cash. so maybe keep that in mind...
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Old October 10th, 2002, 06:18 PM   #2
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How about neither? Based on your post I'd suggest a GL2 or VX2000. The GL2 will give you most of the features of the XL1s and a slightly higher resolution for a much lower price. This would leave you some change for accessories such as a case, filters, lighting, etc. Or it will lower your debt (assuming you're planning to go into hock to buy the camera). So many young folks end up paying for these cameras years longer than they ever actually used them.

Re: "...not look like video", these -are- video cameras. So many (especially young) people think that simply getting a better video cam will make their shoots look like $1 million productions. It doesn't work that way. The camera only represents a fraction of the professional look that everyone seems to expect to happen automatically. Skillful lighting, sound, framing, controlled movement, etc. are what produce such results. It takes skill that comes only with practice and study.

(Fatherly tone here): What's the rush? If you already know that you cannot afford such an expense why not wait until you can? If the purchase makes your financial life miserable the camera will only serve as a continuous reminder of your situation and you'll not enjoy its use.
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Old October 10th, 2002, 07:47 PM   #3
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i know that you wont get FILM quality, because its NOT film, but are you denying that you can get some pretty sexy results?

And im in a rush because we need to film a short before the due date before dec. 18th.

Please don't hold it against me that I am young, though you do hold some valid points.

But if im allowed to get a camera instead of a car, I would like to get one in the price range of what an old car, like 3,000 would be.
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Old October 10th, 2002, 07:54 PM   #4
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Howdy from Texas,

We won't hold it against you if you're young, David (although when I was your age, an old car was $500). And you're right, you can get some pretty sexy results with just about any 3-chip DV camcorder.

Between the GL2, VX2000 and DVX100, remember they have far more in common than they do any real differences. If at all possible, get your hands on them and try before you buy. The one which feels right in your hands is the best one for you. The numbers, specs, features, who's using it, all that other stuff is meaningless compared to how it feels in your hands, how comfortable you are when you're holding it. Hope this helps,
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Old October 10th, 2002, 08:23 PM   #5
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hey. thanks. lol, well my bro got a 67 mustang when he was 16 for 3,000, so thats around the price range my parents are doing too for my camera.

do you have any idea where I can hold these bad boys? maybe its best i dont, for i fear i might orgasm if i do ;)
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Old October 10th, 2002, 09:21 PM   #6
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Well, you didn't fill out the "location" field of your user profile, so it's hard to tell you where to go if we don't know where you're from.

;-)

Click the "user cp" button at the top of the page, choose "edit profile" and you can flesh out your stats there.
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Old October 10th, 2002, 09:26 PM   #7
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whoops. Im in Issaquah Washington! hope that helps
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Old October 10th, 2002, 09:38 PM   #8
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Davidnssbm,

maybe you should sit down with your parents and draw out a proposal where you would paying them back for the camera in an installment plan, and that way you would still be able to get a car far more quickly, most if not all parents will say match what you put in. Hence you pay $1500 back to them and usually they let it go.

I grew up in a jewish household too, and believe me if we are anything, we are kind and plentiful with our children.

I would love a camera for chanucka, most i get is craploch and a cheese blinz. :)

On the question of your camera, since my lasts posts here, i have had a play with the pd150, gl2 and xl1s all PAL versions but that shouldn't bother you.

I dismissed the gl2 almost straight away not because it was a bad camera but i hate having to delve into menu's to change major needed settings on a camera.

The pd-150 was a nice camera, but had it's faults too, one thing being that it is the same price as an xl1s here, and i felt the xl1s haad a little more to offer for my money.

The xl1s will most likely be my choice, unless i find a better used pro camera in the same price range, because of the easily accesible adjustments built onto the camera itself, and the future of various upgrades available to it.

But you should sit and think really really hard about what you need compared to what i need, as i already own a car and am doing a masters degree in design/multimedia and will be using my camera non-stop for the next 2 years for all my projects.

I managed to shoot an award winning short on a $1000 panasonic (i think it was mx-3) and that was a single chip little fixed lense camera, it had its problems but i learned to get around them and get quite nice footage out of it.

anyways, i hope this helps, spending alot does not equate to anything, everything is down to the people who use the camera itself.

kermie
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Old October 10th, 2002, 09:51 PM   #9
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Shalom! Great post.

I actually have some good news. It looks like my Bro wont be driving my parent's bronco anymore because he bought his own car! So i get the bronco now later in the winter!

Are you sure the PD-150 is the same price as the XL1s? I heard it was like 1,000 dollars less.

How much is an XL1s with just the body, lens, and view finder? no bundle stuff and what not. (ofcourse the battery and what not though)
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Old October 10th, 2002, 10:56 PM   #10
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David,

Being situated in australia curves prices quite a bit, since we get PAL models, we have no fab plants here so they come either directly from japan or germany usually, rarely from the UK since their dollar/pound kills us.

So here the pd150e and the xl1s PAL are within $100 of each other. For some reason canon remain cheaper here than sony across their entire range.

I have found that you will end up paying a little bit more buying just the body and adding to it.

But check out the site sponsors they seem cheap and very reliable.

http://www.dvinfo.net/sponsors/index.php

Personally i can't help you buying american gear, but i can tell you that you won't be dissapointed with which ever purchase you make because you are getting a hell of alot for your money, or as the doc says in Back to the Future "a mobile television studio". (heh heh)

kermie
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Old October 10th, 2002, 11:32 PM   #11
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Kermie,

<< I dismissed the gl2 almost straight away not because it was a bad camera but i hate having to delve into menu's to change major needed settings on a camera. >>

Can you be a bit more specific? Which major needed settings are you referring to. Just about anything in the GL2 menu can be assigned to the Custom Preset button on the lower left side of the camera, to be called up with the press of a finger.

Unlike some other cameras, the GL2 has many features accessible right on the body and *not* hidden in menu... audio level controls, for example.
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Old October 10th, 2002, 11:54 PM   #12
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Chris,

I like to fiddle with many of the settings while i am using the camera, almost always will do quite a few takes of a shot just to see what will result in the best looking results.

I found it difficult to find the apeture/iris settings, and geez i cant remember without having one in my hand right now.

I spent a good couple hours with the camera, and found the small body incredibly difficult to adjust without actually moving the camera, which is the last thing i want when i have finally set up my shot.

The audio level control was right there, same with the pd150 dosnt make it that great when i have to take away my eye from the viewfinder like i had to with the pd150 to get to the audio controls.

I guess what turned me off what the fact i couldn't easilly adjust things without contorting my hands to access controls.. the xl1s was slightly better in this regard.. in a perfect world, i would have a big handle, comming off the camera with all the levers on that and i could control in the palm of my hands... I also found the gl2's zoom to be a little un-responsive, the xl1s as well for that matter, not a perfect world i guess.

One more thing is that, in australia a gls is $6500 a xl1s is $7200, when the prices are that close here now, (i found it for $7200 today from a good dealer) the little differences become a lot more considerable, when i am spending $6500 the $700 is not that noticable .....

kermie
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Old October 12th, 2002, 09:52 PM   #13
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anyone else?
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Old October 12th, 2002, 10:17 PM   #14
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Go for a GL2 if you want frame mode. If you don't, go for the VX2000. Personally, I like the GL2 better, however, I think the VX2000 is the better cam (if you don't need frame mode).
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Old October 12th, 2002, 10:38 PM   #15
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The only controls that I can think of (in a menu) that you might want to adjust are the LCD ones. it's an anoyence, but I wouldn't pick one over the other based on that. Comfort and ease of use are subjective. But definetly a reason to avoid one over the other. If the camera isn't comfortable when you hold it now, it really won't get much better. If size isn't a real big factor and with only a 10% (or so) price difference I'd get the XL1.

If you go with the XL1 expect more than a 10% difference. The XL1 really does need a better tripod than the lighter GL2. The difference there may cost an additional $500 or more. The larger size lens on the XL will require more expensive filters or a matte box. These little things add up. Compare total packages and see where you stand.

Jeff
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