If i set the ShutterSpeed, and then i move the exposure manually; the shutter change? at DVinfo.net

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Old June 10th, 2005, 09:54 PM   #1
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If i set the ShutterSpeed, and then i move the exposure manually; the shutter change?

:S............

I mean, if i set the Shutter Speed in my camcorder, for example : 1/60 AE mode ( Sports ), and then i switch the exposure to manual, the camara is holding the shutter at 1/60? or the shutter speed change, every time i touch the exposure ?
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Old June 11th, 2005, 06:17 AM   #2
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What make and model camcorder do you have Roberto? It's hard for us to answer your question without some more information....
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Old June 11th, 2005, 09:52 PM   #3
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I have a sony consumer camcorder, it's a TRV110 (Digital-8), the system is like most of the TRV series and CCD-TRxxx Series.
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Old June 12th, 2005, 12:14 AM   #4
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Exposure on that camera should control iris.

I used to use that camera but don't know the ins and outs of its controls. From what I remember, there are few manual controls and no manual shutter. You can however use the shooting modes. I don't think Sports gives you 1/60th shutter (sports shooting modes typically give high shutter speeds?).

Probably stick to portrait mode and spotlight mode. Spotlight mode is for specific situations where auto-exposure overexposes the subject. This will happen with stage/theatrical lighting.
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Old June 12th, 2005, 10:24 AM   #5
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Roberto,

"Sports" mode will force the shutter speed to 1/2000 or 1/5000th of a sec.
This is a very short time for exposure. It will make your iris open wide and maybe add some electronic gain, resulting in a grainy picture if lighting is anything less than full sunshine. It may be useful only to break a golfer's swing into clean-stopped frames...

Try "Soft Portrait" mode instead. This AE program enables slightly faster shutter speeds (1/250 to 1/500) which allow the iris to be set around f4 to f5.6 in daylight. You'll get better focus and shallower depth of field. Also, this program turns the sharpness down to eliminate the edge enhancement outlines that make highly detailed pictures so "busy". You may switch to MANUAL aperture to fine-tune your light balance.
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Old June 12th, 2005, 10:30 AM   #6
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More information for your TRV-110:

On D8 cams since 1999/2000,

AE Programs :
-Spot:  automatic aperture, less 1 f-stop.
-Beach & Ski:  automatic aperture, plus 1 f-stop.
-Sports:  fast shutter (1/1000 to 1/4000)
-Soft Portrait:  Light controlled by shutter speed up to 1/500 before iris is closed, for narrower depth-of-field. Sharpness (edge enhancement) turned down to minimize outline effect.
-Sunset & Moon:  gain limited to +6db to preserve night ambiance, electronic stabilizer disabled to keep shutter speed down at 1/60th. Manual focus only to avoid "hunting".
-Landscape:  Focus at infinity to prevent auto-focus on foreground or bugs on the windshield.
-Candlelight (Low Lux):  Very slow shutter speed (1/4th)
-Backlight switch:  plus 2 f-stops

Menus (NTSC) :
-Slow Shutter #1: 1/30th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, electronic stabilizer disabled (no strobe effect)
-Slow Shutter #2: 1/15th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, electronic stabilizer disabled (slight strobe effect)
-Slow Shutter #3: 1/8th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, electronic stabilizer disabled (notable strobe effect)
-Slow Shutter #4: 1/4th sec., deinterlaced, Auto-iris only, electronic stabilizer disabled (heavy strobe effect)

Note: To expose a frame during 1/30th sec., the cam totally discards the even field, while exposing the odd one twice as long. Then it duplicates the one exposed to replace the one discarded. Hence a 50% loss of vertical resolution (240 lines duplicated, instead of 480) but real 1/30th exposure.
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Last edited by Norm Couture; June 12th, 2005 at 07:18 PM.
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Old June 12th, 2005, 05:49 PM   #7
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If i choose "Sunset & Moon", the shutter is set to 1/60?

What if i set the focus to manual and the Exposure to manual ? , will the shutter speed be affected ?
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Old June 12th, 2005, 07:08 PM   #8
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No Roberto, in "Sunset & Moon" mode, the shutter speed is locked at 1/60th.
In fact, the shutter speed is 1/60th by default (when SteadyShot is OFF), unless you select an AE program such as Sports, Soft Portrait, or Candle Light, or if you select a SlowShutter in the digital effects menu.
You may tweak the focus and the aperture in manual without affecting the shutter speed.
However, if you leave the SteadyShot stabilizer ON, the default shutter speed is accelerated to 1/100th, and that may cause some noise in your picture when the light is low.
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Old June 12th, 2005, 09:56 PM   #9
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Thanks a lot for the help, :)

I did some tests with my cameras, i have also a CCD-TR818 wich is a Hi8, and the contrast and colors are more richer than the TRV110 in "sunset & moon" mode.

The trv110 is a little bit darker, I don't know wich camera should i trust so far.

Anyway..., if there's any other way to set the shutter at 1/60 and put the focus in auto mode, i'll very appreciate the tip. Cause in "auto mode" even with the steadyshot OFF, the camera doesn't switch the shutter to 1/60, and the gain goes to high in dark places.

Thanks.
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Old June 13th, 2005, 11:06 AM   #10
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Manual aperture & Gain

Roberto,
Generally, you can leave focus in Auto mode if you want. It's not related to the aperture or the shutter speed. However, in Sunset & Moon program, the focus is locked in manual to avoid continuous hunting in the dark.

Here is a chart to help you understand how your TRV110 works with aperture and gain. In most modes, you can control both functions with the manual aperture thumbwheel.

On D8 and most Sony consumer cams, manual aperture control combines the iris aperture with the electronic gain in a sequence of 24 steps on the jog/dial (thumbwheel), but the exact value (data/code) is only displayed in playback on the LCD.
So when reviewers say there's no gain control on D8 cams, they're wrong : there is a manual control of gain but it's not independant of the iris aperture.

On my TRV320 for instance, these values are:

step, f-Stop, Gain
1-----close----0
2------f28-----0
3------f22-----0
4------f19-----0
5------f16-----0
6------f14-----0
7------f11-----0
8-----f9.6-----0
9------f8------0
10----f6.8-----0
11----f5.6-----0
12----f4.8-----0
13-----f4------0
14----f3.4-----0
15----f2.8-----0
16----f2.4-----0
17-----f2------0
18----f1.6-----0 (wide open but no gain)
19----f1.6---+3dB
20----f1.6---+6dB (maximum allowed by Sunset & Moon program)
21----f1.6---+9dB
22----f1.6--+12dB (noisy)
23----f1.6--+15dB (very noisy)
24----f1.6--+18dB (waaaaay too noisy)

So, remember, iris fully open with 0-gain is not step #24. It's step #18 on the thumbwheel.
On a quick low-light shoot (preferably in "Portrait" mode), I switch to MANUAL aperture and count 5 or 6 steps down from the right end of the scale displayed on the LCD to avoid the grainy video noise caused by electronic gain.
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Last edited by Norm Couture; June 13th, 2005 at 12:14 PM.
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