A simle solution for canon to use full size chips in their video line up?? at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > Open DV Discussion

Open DV Discussion
For topics which don't fit into any of the other categories.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old February 2nd, 2010, 11:57 PM   #1
New Boot
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Perth Western Australia
Posts: 23
A simle solution for canon to use full size chips in their video line up??

Firstly and briefly, Canon's new camera = yawn.

Why are they not releasing a full frame dedicated video camera?

Now I get that everyone is going to say it's because of the huge lens size/ complexity to achieve the zoom and wide angle capabilities of an "every day lens" like on the XLH1, due to the size of the image sensor. Also the auto focus, zoom motor etc.

But my thought. Why could they just not build a video camera with a full frame 35mm sensor. Then have the "standard lens" that comes with the camera (say a similar lens as currently on the XLH1) when attached to the camera the camera could detect it and reduce the the used area on the image sensor. Then switch to a full frame EOS lens and it would switch to full frame.

Why would this not work? The 5D is 21mp, Hd videos only needs 2mp I'm sure there is enough pixels in there.

Even if for some reason it wouldn't work why cant you have two image sensors and a internal mirror to switch between then or something?
__________________
Craig Turner - In Shot Productions
Video Production Perth Western Australia www.inshotproductions.com
Craig Turner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 3rd, 2010, 09:01 AM   #2
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Torbay, UK
Posts: 170
Im not sure if its possible or not but what you say does make sense. Maybe someone with more knowledge of sensors can inform us if it would be possible.

Im not sure if I agree with the argument that the camera needs to have the lens abilities of a standard ENG or Prosumer camera. I think everyone who wants a Full frame camcorder just want a 5D or 7D in the shape of a standard camcorder and included pro audio etc. It wouldnt be a replacement for the standard 1/3in camera but rather an addition for people who want a prosumer camera for creative use. Just like how people right now by a VSLR for creative and low light use but still use other cameras for actuality stuff. No one is complaining that the 7D doesnt have a motorised 20x zoom because thats not what they need it for. A FF camcorder would be the same.

I think Canon should release a APC sensor camcorder in the shape of the XHA1 with XLR audio, audio control levels, 3 or 4in LCD, A1 batteries, record on to dual CF or SD card media, have an EOS mount on the front and an option to include a EF-S 17-55mm 2.8 IS lens.
Jonathan Palfrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 3rd, 2010, 09:13 AM   #3
Obstreperous Rex
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: San Marcos, TX
Posts: 26,900
Images: 513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Turner View Post
Why are they not releasing a full frame dedicated video camera?
The answer to this question is explained in detail here: APS-C or Full Frame CMOS Sensors? Not Happening in 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Turner View Post
why cant you have two image sensors and a internal mirror to switch between then or something?
Good heavens, I thought you said *simple!*
__________________
CH

Search DV Info Net | DV Info Net Sponsors | A Decade (+5) of DVi | ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!
Chris Hurd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 3rd, 2010, 09:18 PM   #4
New Boot
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Perth Western Australia
Posts: 23
Actually that is the article I am replying to.

My idea would solve the lens zoom ratio/ lens flexibility issues. And in regard to event films being a small niche market it would open a full frame camera up to the whole (massive) prosumer market.

Even if they did release a "video camera body" version of the 5D, having a small image sensor switching option would still make it 1000 times beter.

our business does a huge variety of work i.e. ENG, Wedding Videos, Sports, Doco, TV production, corporate. I love the 5D2 for wedding work and many elements of the other areas we work in however there is simply some situations where the 5D2 is rubbish (as detailed in that article)
##Two recent situations where it has proven difficult was a sports event. You just can't get a big enough practical zoom lens. The photos were fine though because you can crop them (btw cropped them to a resolution still higher than HD). Another situation is when we use the camera for personal use and sometime you simple need to switch every thing to auto so someone else can use the camera##

Imagine a auto lens for every situation then the option of EF lens and by the same design principle you could even use EF-S lenses. It would rock!

I think canons biggest problem is at this point is it's too late for them. They have already shown the world it is cheap and practical to have a full frame video capability. The issues of lens flexibility versus market segment, for them should be only small technical details to design around in a new camera.

that's my though anyway
__________________
Craig Turner - In Shot Productions
Video Production Perth Western Australia www.inshotproductions.com
Craig Turner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2010, 04:09 PM   #5
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 385
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Turner View Post
Actually that is the article I am replying to.

My idea would solve the lens zoom ratio/ lens flexibility issues. And in regard to event films being a small niche market it would open a full frame camera up to the whole (massive) prosumer market.
Just tossing around a few numbers based on that, and here's what I see.

By prosumer, you must mean an XLH1A or XLH1S, since interchangeable lenses are mentioned. How "massive" of a market is that compared to 5Dm2's market? The 5Dm2 market is probably already several times larger.

If by prosumer you mean a Vixia series, none of those have interchangeable lenses, so if you introduce a $3000- HD camcorder with interchangeable lenses, you've just undercut Canon's entire pro line by a lot.

To crop down to just 2mp of the 5Dm2's 21mp, you will still need a lens that can cover a 2/3 sensor (larger actually, surface area of a 2/3 chip is only 58mm but ff35 is 864mm). A 2/3 chip prosumer camcorder will be quite something already.

The 5Dm2 sensor is 40x larger than the 1/3 chip in the XLH1 series... yes, 40x. That much of a difference would make it very hard to use anything currently already designed for video.
Kin Lau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 6th, 2010, 03:27 PM   #6
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Turner View Post
Why could they just not build a video camera with a full frame 35mm sensor. Then have the "standard lens" that comes with the camera (say a similar lens as currently on the XLH1) when attached to the camera the camera could detect it and reduce the the used area on the image sensor. Then switch to a full frame EOS lens and it would switch to full frame.
Generally, that would work. Nikon does this with DX lenses on FX cameras. But in order to have 1080p pixel count on the windowed 1/3" sensor, you would have to have a total pixel count of 103 MP. Currently, full frame sensors are only around 12-24 MP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Turner View Post
Why would this not work? The 5D is 21mp, Hd videos only needs 2mp I'm sure there is enough pixels in there.
Not even close. Even with 21 MP to start with, when you widow the sensor to just 1/3", there would only be 800x450, which is less than Standard Definition (0.3 MP).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Turner View Post
Even if for some reason it wouldn't work why cant you have two image sensors and a internal mirror to switch between then or something?
I think a much better solution is to just stop down the full frame lens and continue using the whole sensor.
Daniel Browning is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > Open DV Discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:38 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network