band on stage footage at DVinfo.net

Adam Rench · July 6th, 2005, 09:22 PM

hey all,

I'm going to be doing my first paying gig Friday! I'm friggin nervous though! I'm sure everything will go well though. I do have a quick question for y'all. I'm doing a video of a band playing on stage outside during the day. I asked if they wanted a music video or just a video of them playing. They said that they just want a video. They have a list of things that they want done, which is great because I don't have to do any of the forethought.

However, I'm wondering, which camera setting should I use? I have the XL2 and I know I don't want to do 60i, but should I do 24p or 30p for this? I'm sort of leaning towards 30p because it's not a music video but more of just a video of them playing.

What do you think?

Ash Greyson · July 6th, 2005, 10:05 PM

30P looks great for music stuff. Also, push the shutter up, that looks great too. Be careful with the exposure because if they are well shaded on the stage that can be a problem. DONT leave the camera on a tripod the entire time, do some songs handheld (faster songs not ballads) and be sure to get lots of close-up and not to obsess with one set-up no matter how good it looks.

ash =o)

Adam Rench · July 6th, 2005, 11:40 PM

Thanks for the reply Ash. :) One more question for ya then regarding the shutter speed. I have it set at 1/48 for my last indie short. Would you recommend a different speed? I'm REALLY new to all of this stuff.

Stephanie Wilson · July 7th, 2005, 02:22 AM

Adam,

Sorry, no technical suggestions here. However, I am concerned for you regarding the band's request for a music video versus a video of their music. These are two totally different animals as you know.

You said they just wanted a simple recording but you then added that they had made certain requests. Do these requests equate to different angles, close-ups and camera movement? ie; shooting a music video?

If so, this is at the very least a two camera shoot. One static wide with an audio feed and one roving cam with camera mic and a slaved time code so you can sync the audio during editing.

If they want anything more than a static wide shot of their performance, just make sure they are willing to pay for the second cam and the subsequent editing.

Good Luck.

Adam Rench · July 7th, 2005, 07:12 AM

Excellent suggestions Stephanie! I think we are on the same wavelength because I am doing a 2 camera job. I was sort of thinking along the same lines as you with the way they want it filmed. They do want just a video, but I can't give them just a video, to me that would not be nice. ;o)

I'm pretty sure that what they want is a music video, but they just don't know it. The two camera job is essential though to make any kind of edits. The 2nd cam is going to be handheld and will be getting crowd reactions and secondary footage of the band.

Bob Costa · July 7th, 2005, 09:39 AM

You should understand better what they want. If they plan to put it on a website or anywhere else, crowd shots may cause problems with not having releases, etc...

Bob Costa · July 7th, 2005, 09:40 AM

Likewise, if the music is not their original music and you do not have proper papers signed, as producer you could find yourself caught in copyright violation issues.

David Ennis · July 7th, 2005, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Costa

You should understand better what they want. If they plan to put it on a website or anywhere else, crowd shots may cause problems with not having releases, etc...

Bob, is that right? I thought that when you step out in public you give up your privacy rights. Newscasts show passers-by all the time. Is it a matter of regaining those rights when you pay admission to be part of a limited gathering, or something?

Bob Costa · July 7th, 2005, 11:48 AM

I am not an attorney , but here are a couple of possibly correct tidbits:

News has different permission rules than commercial productions.

Inside a venue is not "in public" like walking down a sidewalk.

Its not impossible to deal with, just requires consideration. Approval from the venue owner and sufficient warning signage MIGHT be enough, but IANAA. You may have no issues at all. I just wanted to mention it.

Ash Greyson · July 7th, 2005, 02:24 PM

Having done a jillion of these, these issue is rarely with the crowd but with the venue. Make sure you have clearance in advance from the menu and tell them where you want to shoot from and have them block it off for you.

2 Cameras are better than one. Leave the static camera wide and roam with the handlheld. If you have a chance, bring some gaffer tape and mark on the stage the safe areas for you to be with the handheld that you wont be in the static cams picture. Do not shoot much crowd, in general, crowd shots can be pulled from any song.

As far as shutter, if you were at 1/48th then you were shooting in 24P mode. I dont recommend that for faster paced music with a handheld. It is great for acoustic stuff on cranes and steadicams. Leave the iris wide open and try to get the shutter above 1/500, that makes for great looking crispy close-ups on guitars, bass and drums...

ash =o)

Adam Rench · July 7th, 2005, 05:29 PM

Thanks again for the awesome settings suggestions.

As far as the crowd and such, I'm not worried about that. I'll be doing some shots from the floor from behind the crowd up to them playing. Also, this band plays all it's own original stuff. I also checked with the place and they said that only thing that I need to worry about is telling them if I will be having any cords laying around so that the facility would need to place covers on them so no one trips and such.

I think we got it covered now (yeah right! haha).

Steve Barcik · July 25th, 2005, 12:48 PM

Here is the main problem we have with shooting bands; Sound.

The band wants a video, Yeah! And they will pay, but they or the producer does not consider the sound. If you love to listen to bootlegs a lot then using ambient mics is OK, but only just OK. If the band wants a video for booking, promotion, TV, internet, whatever, there must be a mixer and recording set up. A typical Band will require 16 to 24 tracks, and then this should be mixed and mastered. A cheap set up is a stereo mix ,post split at the stage, fed directly to the primary cam using a hard drive capture.

Contact me and I can help you figure out which you need.

Adam Rench · July 25th, 2005, 03:05 PM

Hey thanks for the offer Steve. That was actually the first question that popped out of my mouth when they asked me to film them. I said that if they wanted a good sound that they would need to provide me with the sound recording. They said that they had it covered and were going to record off the board and it turned out great.

Chris Ivanovskis · August 1st, 2005, 04:34 PM

i've done this quite a few times around OKC.

things to consider. try and have more than one camera. its a lot more interesting to see multiple angles.

make sure ahead of time that there is enough light. i can't stress this enough! i showed up on my first one with 3 cameras - 2 roaming and 1 stationary in the back. the rear camera was an xl1 and it couldn't pick up hardly anything because it was so damn dark.

you need a good audio feed. i try and get 2 mics/stands from the band and set up in the back so i can get a good room sound in combo with the band. audio off the sound board usually isn't that great, the vocals tend to drown everything out.

good luck. bring gaffing tape, flash lights, pens, any small silly item you think you might need. i keep a "junk bag" around me thats filled with odd connectors and strange tidbits. never know when you need a needle and thread.

July 6th, 2005, 09:22 PM	#1
Adam Rench Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Dallas, Texas, USA Posts: 386	band on stage footage hey all, I'm going to be doing my first paying gig Friday! I'm friggin nervous though! I'm sure everything will go well though. I do have a quick question for y'all. I'm doing a video of a band playing on stage outside during the day. I asked if they wanted a music video or just a video of them playing. They said that they just want a video. They have a list of things that they want done, which is great because I don't have to do any of the forethought. However, I'm wondering, which camera setting should I use? I have the XL2 and I know I don't want to do 60i, but should I do 24p or 30p for this? I'm sort of leaning towards 30p because it's not a music video but more of just a video of them playing. What do you think?

July 7th, 2005, 09:39 AM	#6
Bob Costa Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Venice, FL Posts: 850	You should understand better what they want. If they plan to put it on a website or anywhere else, crowd shots may cause problems with not having releases, etc... __________________ You are either growing or dying.

July 7th, 2005, 09:40 AM	#7
Bob Costa Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Venice, FL Posts: 850	Likewise, if the music is not their original music and you do not have proper papers signed, as producer you could find yourself caught in copyright violation issues. __________________ You are either growing or dying.

July 7th, 2005, 11:48 AM	#9
Bob Costa Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Venice, FL Posts: 850	I am not an attorney , but here are a couple of possibly correct tidbits: News has different permission rules than commercial productions. Inside a venue is not "in public" like walking down a sidewalk. Its not impossible to deal with, just requires consideration. Approval from the venue owner and sufficient warning signage MIGHT be enough, but IANAA. You may have no issues at all. I just wanted to mention it. __________________ You are either growing or dying.

July 25th, 2005, 12:48 PM	#12
Steve Barcik New Boot Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 12	Shooting Bands Here is the main problem we have with shooting bands; Sound. The band wants a video, Yeah! And they will pay, but they or the producer does not consider the sound. If you love to listen to bootlegs a lot then using ambient mics is OK, but only just OK. If the band wants a video for booking, promotion, TV, internet, whatever, there must be a mixer and recording set up. A typical Band will require 16 to 24 tracks, and then this should be mixed and mastered. A cheap set up is a stereo mix ,post split at the stage, fed directly to the primary cam using a hard drive capture. Contact me and I can help you figure out which you need. __________________ Steve B Set It off!

July 6th, 2005, 10:05 PM	#2
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	30P looks great for music stuff. Also, push the shutter up, that looks great too. Be careful with the exposure because if they are well shaded on the stage that can be a problem. DONT leave the camera on a tripod the entire time, do some songs handheld (faster songs not ballads) and be sure to get lots of close-up and not to obsess with one set-up no matter how good it looks. ash =o)

July 6th, 2005, 11:40 PM	#3
Adam Rench Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Dallas, Texas, USA Posts: 386	Thanks for the reply Ash. :) One more question for ya then regarding the shutter speed. I have it set at 1/48 for my last indie short. Would you recommend a different speed? I'm REALLY new to all of this stuff.

July 7th, 2005, 02:22 AM	#4
Stephanie Wilson Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Sherman Oaks CA Posts: 255	Adam, Sorry, no technical suggestions here. However, I am concerned for you regarding the band's request for a music video versus a video of their music. These are two totally different animals as you know. You said they just wanted a simple recording but you then added that they had made certain requests. Do these requests equate to different angles, close-ups and camera movement? ie; shooting a music video? If so, this is at the very least a two camera shoot. One static wide with an audio feed and one roving cam with camera mic and a slaved time code so you can sync the audio during editing. If they want anything more than a static wide shot of their performance, just make sure they are willing to pay for the second cam and the subsequent editing. Good Luck.

July 7th, 2005, 07:12 AM	#5
Adam Rench Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Dallas, Texas, USA Posts: 386	Excellent suggestions Stephanie! I think we are on the same wavelength because I am doing a 2 camera job. I was sort of thinking along the same lines as you with the way they want it filmed. They do want just a video, but I can't give them just a video, to me that would not be nice. ;o) I'm pretty sure that what they want is a music video, but they just don't know it. The two camera job is essential though to make any kind of edits. The 2nd cam is going to be handheld and will be getting crowd reactions and secondary footage of the band.

July 7th, 2005, 02:24 PM	#10
Ash Greyson Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 1,689	Having done a jillion of these, these issue is rarely with the crowd but with the venue. Make sure you have clearance in advance from the menu and tell them where you want to shoot from and have them block it off for you. 2 Cameras are better than one. Leave the static camera wide and roam with the handlheld. If you have a chance, bring some gaffer tape and mark on the stage the safe areas for you to be with the handheld that you wont be in the static cams picture. Do not shoot much crowd, in general, crowd shots can be pulled from any song. As far as shutter, if you were at 1/48th then you were shooting in 24P mode. I dont recommend that for faster paced music with a handheld. It is great for acoustic stuff on cranes and steadicams. Leave the iris wide open and try to get the shutter above 1/500, that makes for great looking crispy close-ups on guitars, bass and drums... ash =o)

July 7th, 2005, 05:29 PM	#11
Adam Rench Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Dallas, Texas, USA Posts: 386	Thanks again for the awesome settings suggestions. As far as the crowd and such, I'm not worried about that. I'll be doing some shots from the floor from behind the crowd up to them playing. Also, this band plays all it's own original stuff. I also checked with the place and they said that only thing that I need to worry about is telling them if I will be having any cords laying around so that the facility would need to place covers on them so no one trips and such. I think we got it covered now (yeah right! haha).

July 25th, 2005, 03:05 PM	#13
Adam Rench Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Dallas, Texas, USA Posts: 386	Hey thanks for the offer Steve. That was actually the first question that popped out of my mouth when they asked me to film them. I said that if they wanted a good sound that they would need to provide me with the sound recording. They said that they had it covered and were going to record off the board and it turned out great.

August 1st, 2005, 04:34 PM	#14
Chris Ivanovskis Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Norman, OK Posts: 60	i've done this quite a few times around OKC. things to consider. try and have more than one camera. its a lot more interesting to see multiple angles. make sure ahead of time that there is enough light. i can't stress this enough! i showed up on my first one with 3 cameras - 2 roaming and 1 stationary in the back. the rear camera was an xl1 and it couldn't pick up hardly anything because it was so damn dark. you need a good audio feed. i try and get 2 mics/stands from the band and set up in the back so i can get a good room sound in combo with the band. audio off the sound board usually isn't that great, the vocals tend to drown everything out. good luck. bring gaffing tape, flash lights, pens, any small silly item you think you might need. i keep a "junk bag" around me thats filled with odd connectors and strange tidbits. never know when you need a needle and thread. __________________ itimebomb productions