An open letter to the doom-sayers at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > Open DV Discussion

Open DV Discussion
For topics which don't fit into any of the other categories.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old August 11th, 2010, 01:51 PM   #1
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia (formerly Winnipeg, Manitoba) Canada
Posts: 4,087
An open letter to the doom-sayers

Folks, my pet peeve is the pronouncement that things are DEAD because from one's own particular (and necessarily NARROW) viewpoint, they don't see a purpose for them any more. It would impress me greatly if we could get away from this RIDICULOUS idiom.

Things that ARE dead:
Analog over the air transmission of television in North America, the 700MHz band of wireless for audio transmission in North America as WE video folks know it, U-Matic (although I would suggest it is creeping around like a zombie)

Things that AREN'T dead:
Analog video, standard definition, 4:3 aspect (Kubrick filmed Eyes Wide Shut in 4:3 - any other showing of it is INACCURATE, in terms of how the director intended us to view it), tape based capture, shoulder cameras, DV/DVCam, HDV, linear editing (although it's starting to smell PRETTY bad...), DVD, film, genlock, timebase correctors, video lenses (in favour of still lenses)... and many more.

I understand that the student scraping up enough money for his/her first "real" video camera sees the Sony EX1r as the Holy Grail, but it ISN'T the pinnacle of modern imaging. I recognize that each of us has a glass ceiling that we can't ever see ourselves working above but that does NOT preclude the EXISTENCE of those that do or the equipment that they use.

So please... unless you are a broadcast engineer or an undertaker, PLEASE refrain from pronouncing things "dead"

Thus endeth the sermon.
__________________
Shaun C. Roemich Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC - Videographer - Webcaster
www.roaddogmedia.ca Blog: http://roaddogmedia.wordpress.com/
Shaun Roemich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 11th, 2010, 02:08 PM   #2
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 4,100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun Roemich View Post
I understand that the student scraping up enough money for his/her first "real" video camera sees the Sony EX1r as the Holy Grail, but it ISN'T the pinnacle of modern imaging.
Are you talking about the Alexa?


;)


(I know I've been guilty of saying things are dead. I'll try to heed your advice in the future and term them... "fallen into disfavor")
__________________
DVX100, PMW-EX1, Canon 550D, FigRig, Dell Octocore, Avid MC4/5, MB Looks, RedCineX, Matrox MX02 mini, GTech RAID, Edirol R-4, Senn. G2 Evo, Countryman, Moles and Lowels.
Perrone Ford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 11th, 2010, 02:11 PM   #3
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia (formerly Winnipeg, Manitoba) Canada
Posts: 4,087
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perrone Ford View Post
Are you talking about the Alexa?
I was thinking more along the line of the Barbie Cam... <evil grin>

Frankly, I don't even KNOW what the pinnacle is anymore... obviously something I can't afford to RENT right now, forget OWN...
__________________
Shaun C. Roemich Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC - Videographer - Webcaster
www.roaddogmedia.ca Blog: http://roaddogmedia.wordpress.com/
Shaun Roemich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 11th, 2010, 02:34 PM   #4
Trustee
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Posts: 1,585
You forgot to mention that 35mm adaptors are dead....

Okay, just kidding.
__________________
.
http://www.nosmallroles.com
Vito DeFilippo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 11th, 2010, 08:53 PM   #5
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Burbank CA
Posts: 466
I'm likin' the undertaker analogy. When they say something is dead, there's really not much room for discussion. I wouldn't argue with them anyway as most of the one's I've met lack a sense of humor.
David Morgan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 11th, 2010, 08:58 PM   #6
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 6,609
Shaun, are you saying I should not get rid of my s-vhs tapes? ;-)

Seriously, I agree 100%. Never say never, never say always.
__________________
What do I know? I'm just a video-O-grafer.
Don
Don Bloom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 11th, 2010, 09:31 PM   #7
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia (formerly Winnipeg, Manitoba) Canada
Posts: 4,087
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Bloom View Post
Shaun, are you saying I should not get rid of my s-vhs tapes? ;-)
In terms of keeping them as part of an archive, yes, Hold onto them. Do I recommend going out and buying an S-VHS camcorder and selling your services as "the next great thing - it's ANALOG! AND it's Y/C sep!"? Well...
__________________
Shaun C. Roemich Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC - Videographer - Webcaster
www.roaddogmedia.ca Blog: http://roaddogmedia.wordpress.com/
Shaun Roemich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 11th, 2010, 10:43 PM   #8
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun Roemich View Post
Folks, my pet peeve is the pronouncement that things are DEAD because from one's own particular (and necessarily NARROW) viewpoint, they don't see a purpose for them any more. It would impress me greatly if we could get away from this RIDICULOUS idiom.

Things that ARE dead:
Analog over the air transmission of television in North America.
Even that's not dead. There are still some low power analog signals on the air: religious broadcasters, foreign language and translators mostly in this area.
Jason Sovey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 11th, 2010, 10:58 PM   #9
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia (formerly Winnipeg, Manitoba) Canada
Posts: 4,087
And there you go! Even the guy standing on the soapbox can be "proven" wrong.
__________________
Shaun C. Roemich Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC - Videographer - Webcaster
www.roaddogmedia.ca Blog: http://roaddogmedia.wordpress.com/
Shaun Roemich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 12th, 2010, 12:21 AM   #10
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Neenah, WI
Posts: 547
So pronouncing things "dead"...

...is being pronounced....uh...


Oh...I can't do it. (sigh)
__________________
TimK
Kolb Productions
Tim Kolb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 12th, 2010, 02:31 AM   #11
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Belfast, UK
Posts: 4,121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun Roemich View Post
Analog video, standard definition, 4:3 aspect (Kubrick filmed Eyes Wide Shut in 4:3 - any other showing of it is INACCURATE, in terms of how the director intended us to view it), .
My impression is that he composed for both 1.85 and 4x3, so that you didn't have pan and scan or cropping on the 4:3 TV of that period. Interesting to know what he would've done as 16;9 combined with larger screens has been replacing 4;3 since his death. Although that aspect ratio still is very much around if you don't automatically zoom to widescreen on your TV.

Barry Lyndon was 1.66 and I understand that he had a survey of the cinemas screening it to ensure the correct projector gate was used.
Brian Drysdale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 12th, 2010, 06:15 AM   #12
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Sydney.
Posts: 2,569
Grave pronouncement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun Roemich View Post
So unless you are a broadcast engineer or an undertaker, PLEASE refrain from pronouncing things "dead"

Thus endeth the sermon.
Brother Shaun, just in case you're referring to my RIP Magnetic Tape. string.

My references for writing that obituary are .. I was heavily involved with a very similar plot, when the commercial music bulk audio cassette recording industry (TCMBACRI) was killed stone motherless dead by the introduction of music CDs and their replication. (IOMCATR)

And if it wasn't for its enormous third world use, magnetic recording tape would have been buried by now, except for mag strips on credit cards and other non denominational uses. I'm booked to post the service there too.

BTW the first magnetic tape I ever did an autopsy on was made by the Kraft company, yep the cheese people. It was a 7" roll of thin cardboard coated with mag oxide on a white plastic reel, it was very difficult to disect. It topped out at 2Khz and smelled dreadful.

But if you're not referring to said thread .. then, as you were.
Cheers.
__________________
30+ years with our own audio and visual production company and studios.

Last edited by Allan Black; August 12th, 2010 at 06:53 AM. Reason: can't spell.
Allan Black is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 12th, 2010, 07:09 AM   #13
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allan Black
And if it wasn't for its enormous third world use, magnetic recording tape would have been buried by now, except for mag strips on credit cards and other non denominational uses.
Errrr - what about LTO data tape? Which seems to be the current high end medium of choice for archive in "tapeless" :-) video work flows?

VIDEOtape may be slowly dying, DATAtape most certainly is not.
David Heath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 20th, 2010, 02:03 PM   #14
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Tucson AZ
Posts: 2,206
I certainly hope that data tape isn't dying - that's the industry that I work in - LTO specifically

HOWEVER (There's always a "however") the role of data tape is evolving more in the direction of archive and less in the direction of back-up. Lots of reasons for this among which are technologies such as de-duplication and lower cost disk drives as well as more online systems where the speed advantage of accessing a backup enjoyed by HDD over tape is important. Not the amount of time required to actually restore the data, mind you, just the time required to load the tape and space down to where you can start transferring the data. Tranfer rates on LTO are very fast indeed, it's simply that in a lot of todays environments taking 10 or 20 or 30 minuts to get the the data mitigates against a tape based solution. Archive on the other hand is a totally different story and LTO is aguably the best technology currently available for the job.

A lot of people aren't aware that there were actually two forms of LTO tape established by the LTO consortium, one of which is the current square cartridge which holds only one reel - the take up reel being permanently mounted in the drive.

The other tape standard they published was for a thinner cartridge that had both take up and supply reels inside the cartridge and was nominally positioned at the physical midpoint of the tape thus cutting average "seek" time in half.

This version was never successful and was never implemented by any maker or media company. This version of LTO had been intended as a follow on to the IBM 3570 tape drives which are now out of production. $ per GB won out over speed of access.
Jim Andrada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 22nd, 2010, 01:50 AM   #15
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 81
I heard a story on NPR the other day saying that audio casette tapes are making a comeback. A lot of indie bands are releasing their EPs and demo tapes... on tape, partially for the novelity factor, partially because it encourages listeners to listen rather than instantly skip to the next track.

Some labels are buying up all available casette stock.

Sounds weird, but then again, if someone told me 5 years ago that Best Buy would be selling vinyl LPs, I would have laughed.
Jason Sovey is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > Open DV Discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:20 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network