Hi8 eject error. Jammed shut. YIKES, Should i try to fix myself? at DVinfo.net

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Old October 29th, 2010, 05:39 PM   #1
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Hi8 eject error. Jammed shut. YIKES, Should i try to fix myself?

I have an old Sony Hi8 CCD-TRV-65 camera that has beeen a trusty frined for ten years and always worked flawlessly. I recently let a friend borrow to back up some tapes. He stuck in an old TDK brand 8mm tape and says that when trying to eject the camera froze stuck with the tape door halfway jammed shut. It is in fact jammed and wont budge. The LCD screen reads "eject error".

I guess my options are:

1. Try to force it - Will likely break both the camera and tape.

2. Take to repair shop ( 2 shops have told me they likely will have to break the camera to save the tape). I don't care about my friends porn tape i just want to save the camera.

3. Try to fix it myself. I imagine if i take the micro screws out that gears and springs and nuts and bolts could fly out and i could never get it back together.

4. Any other suggestions?
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Old October 29th, 2010, 06:39 PM   #2
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Hi, Tyson...............

Is there any chance you could post some detailed photo's of the deck in it's current state?

I'm not familiar with that type of unit and it's impossible to make suggestions sight unseen.

Jammed half open is better than jammed completely shut, which is something.

I'll see what I can suggest when I've got more to go on.

Anybody else got a working unit so I can see what the mechanism looks like when the door is fully open?


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Old October 29th, 2010, 06:41 PM   #3
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You could try sending it to Sony to get it repaired. I hope your friend is willing to cover the cost of repair or replacement.
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Old October 29th, 2010, 07:44 PM   #4
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" Hi8 eject error. Jammed shut. YIKES, Should i try to fix myself? "

No. If you are not a factory trained technician you will booger it up, no matter how handy you are
at fixing cars, faucets, light sockets or anything else. Do not ask me how I know this.....!
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Old October 29th, 2010, 10:56 PM   #5
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Having lost my last old Hi-8 to something similar, I'm with Battle on this. Probably for the same reason that you aren't supposed to ask him how he knows. In my case, I had (and still have) a couple of Digital 8 cams that allow me to play the Hi8 tapes and firewire them into the computer. So, I guess the real question probably is: do you still need to have a working Hi8 cam? If you do, send it to the factory service if they'll take it. If not, you might as well smash it with a hammer as try to fix it yourself.
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Old October 30th, 2010, 12:27 AM   #6
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OK, I don't offhand know about the Hi8 decks, but I know there's a "emergency release" procedure on MiniDV decks... it will get the tape out unharmed, AND not damage the camera.

May I suggest that before you try ANYTHING you hunt around for a service manual for ANY model Sony Hi8/D8/8mm camera (should be out there SOMEWHERE on the internet, I know I found a server in Russia with a lot of service manuals available at one time). Once you find a SM, it should show you how to SAFELY remove/eject the tape when the deck is refusing to do so.



Forcing the deck WILL destroy it,.guaranteed. They are delicate, and not meant to be manhandled.

I'd question the skill of any camera shop that said they'd have to break the camera, although I suppose it's possible, however I suspect that the lack of experience with "old" technology is the root of the problem (I repair guitars and tube amps, there are FEW places qualified to do it RIGHT). Recently had to try and find an auto shop that knew what to do with a carburetor...

DIY is a possible option, but track down an SM BEFORE you dive in - trust me on that working out better... I'm with Battle and Jay in that respect! Have a CLEAN work area, a small screwdriver set with tiny phillips and straight tips, magnifying headgear (trust me on that one), and you may need to rig up a little something to pop the deck open (if it's like the MiniDV decks). It's probably safer than taking it to a shop that expects to wreck it.

I have a later model digital 8 camera here in good working order, and can take a look at it and post pictures if it will help.

MOST OF ALL.... DON'T PANIC! I trust there are enough camera hackers here to figure this one out, we'll get you through it, hopefully without leaving a pile of parts!
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Old October 30th, 2010, 05:58 AM   #7
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I'd say Sony won't support that cam now, check that before you send it anywhere to get looked at.

That TDK tape is probably past its useby date and has decomposed to the point where its gone sticky and glued itself to the tape guides. Was it on battery when you tried to eject it?

Closing the transport is your best option, power the cam with AC first then look for a reset button. If it closes, try playing the tape past its current position, don't spool it .. then eject etc. Good luck etc.

Cheers.
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Old October 30th, 2010, 08:22 AM   #8
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As for Sony support, you might be surprised. It depends how much you are prepared to spend.

The HI8, I think had some cachet as a prosumer camera at the time.

They still supported the C74 mike with parts and the TCD10 Pro2 DAT about two years ago and they are of similar vintage.

If you end up DOY, if you are able to get the casework apart, you may be able to get at the load/unload motor, which drives the load mechanism with a reduction gear, often a nylon spiral ( worm and bullwheel ), in other instances, a nylon threestage flat-cut reduction gear system which turns a snailcam wheel which drives levers and travelling parts into their positions along slots and tracks.

It may be that due to dryness of greases occurring over time, excessive load from a dud tape, maybe wear or combination of all, the spiral may have ridden up on the bullwheel and jammed or overload has done something similar to the reduction gear set.

It might be a simple matter of manually releasing the gear back into mesh by reversing the direction of the motor turning and then gently winding the load/unload mechanism back and forth by hand until you can get the cassette to release.

Take care when the load/unload mechanism reaches the endof its excursion that you do not overload the gears by continuing to wind the motor beyond the point of some resistance as things will bend or break.

There is a possibility that there remains some commonality between the HI8 transport parts, the VX1000 and successors, which is why I now suggest a Sony Professional dealership service centre.


Good luck with it.
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Old October 30th, 2010, 11:00 AM   #9
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My point is that do-it-yourself camera repair is like do-it-yourself dentistry --- it is ultimately much less

painful to let a professional handle it. There is a great temptation, particularly if you own a nice bunch of

tools, to think that just having them confers the specialized knowledge to use them on a camera. Well,

owning a violin doesn't make one a violinist....

But one gives into the temptation to just take a little peek and see if it's something simple, so you pull out

your bumper jack and your barbeque tongs and have at it, and just as you get the thing apart discover

that a special factory tool is needed, but maybe the Christmas nutcracker would work, so you go to town.

A wee spring you didn't notice detatches itself, recochets off the cat and buries itself in the afghan Aunt

Minnie sent your last-birthday-but-one, and some small plastic jigger broke and you find yourself with a

Zip-Lock full of parts, which you shame-facedly ship off the the factory service center. Where they grin

and inform you that your favorite item would have been eligable for a factory upgrade except apparently

it was eaten by a gorilla on the way to them and is now irreparable under any circumstances.

Been there, done that....
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Old October 30th, 2010, 11:47 PM   #10
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Battle -
Have you been looking over my shoulder? He he he...

Actually I have a complete tool set, and can work on a very wide range of things both mechanical and electronic, as long as I have some access to service manuals (it's that "how things come apart" that gets tricky). And there comes a time when if one has the knack and inclination, DIY can sure come in handy (and save some $$). Or it can be a mess...

Generally, these cameras aren't THAT complex and don't require special tools to disassemble... but they do have lots of tiny, delicate, and yes especially springy parts! Thus a CLEAN work area, and the jewelers screwdrivers. Screwdrivers to take things held together with tiny screws apart, and a clean work area so you can find the stuff that just flew off that-a-way...

I also recommend a camera being handy to document the disassembly, because even with a manual, you may end up with "where did this go again?"...

Now could you pass that mirror, I've got a twinge in this molar that needs lookin' at!?
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Old October 31st, 2010, 12:23 AM   #11
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I'm with you on this one Dave................

I wanna see what we're dealing with before uttering a squeak, and a manual would be a godsend.

Believe me, I've done my share of "Hail Mary" saves with gear I had no clue about (I worked as a service tech for a number of years) and always ended up with the "nobody has a clue" gear, 'cos, well, nobody had a clue, hey, Chris will fix it!

Gee, thanks guys, like, I really need this bu**sh*t!

Lost a couple of patients, but managed to keep the death rate at about the national average.

Don't talk to me about microwave ovens!

Anyway, back to the task at hand, photos and a manual and we're on the right tack.

I'll take it from there.


CS
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Old October 31st, 2010, 03:32 AM   #12
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Battle.


Your words are indeed worth heeding and a good read as well.

Getting older machinery fixed can be a bit of a lottery. Some people just don't want to see it, too much re-reading of old manuals and parts hard to track down. However sometimes, older practitioners are content to work on stuff they cut their teeth on.

I rebuilt an old Van Doorn electric power tool, old as in cast aluminium and heavy, industrial quality. I hit a snag in that the armature wiring was faulty and needed to be rewound.

As luck would have it, I found a retired electric motor winder, still in demand who was even rewinding impossibly microprecise mainframe computer motors worth $3,000 to replace. He took this thing on and rebuilt the armature, made by hand, a new commutator as well, assembled it to the shaft and skimmed it down at labour cost which obviously was way over what he actually charged me for the job.

It turned out he had done his apprenticeship at the Van Doorn factory and probably built it originally and subsequently migrated to Australia. He pointed to a series of stamped numbers around the casing.

"Each one of these, marks when this machine was re-built." My rebuild was the fourteenth. "You are guest-owners of machines like this. They were built to last. Take care of it and it will take care of you."

It was a real privelidge to meet somebody liike that. He has likely passed on by now, but you never know. He could still be rewinding motors in his little workshop on the side of his house near the Garrett Road bridge at the age of ninety or more. I would like to think so.
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Old October 31st, 2010, 02:02 PM   #13
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Surprising news...

After over a dozen times of turning the camera on and off and pushing eject... the camera suddenly fully ejected the tape. I have no idea why.

I could not get a photo but the tape door was literally half way between open and closed.

I suspect that an old cheap TDK tape may have had bad lube in it, that froze up the gears. But i dont know. I am going to get a head cleaner just in case.
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Old October 31st, 2010, 03:38 PM   #14
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I tried to post this yesterday when the database was misbehaving, and now the problem's fixed - however, I'll still share it just to give a different viewpoint.

I've got a different view. If you don't have the skills at all to even try the repair, don't - but if you have common sense, a set of jewellers type screwdrivers to fit the tiny screws, then what is the worse thing you can do? Break it? It's already broken. Any form of paid for professional repair is going to be very expensive simply because it's fiddly, takes time, and they really don't want to work on older kit anyway! So your options at the moment with it in the current condition are pretty limited. Spend lots of money, or throw it away.

So my view is that as the actual value of the camera is virtually nothing, spending any money has to be uneconomic, so why not have a go. Some are real devils, others, once you work out which screws to remove, come to bits quite easily, and then, once you have access, you can either attempt (if you can gain enough access) to manually force the eject, by manipulating the small plastic cogs - this is often made much easier if you snip the tape, which is almost certainly what is stopping the eject completing. You could find once the tape is cut, that as the pressure is removed from the guides, it will eject, and be fine - total loss = 1 tape. Sometimes, once the case is off, you can remove the lid of the cassette holder, letting the tape slip out. As jammed tapes are pretty common, the manufacturers usually build in a way of removing them - they're tiny and crammed with parts, but the secret is there somewhere. If you break it, all you've lost is your time - you can't really make it worse.

If the camera was newish and very valuable, then obviously a proper repair by people who know makes sense, but at the moment, it's a scrap item as it stands - so you don't have much to lose?
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Old October 31st, 2010, 04:48 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyson Persall View Post
After over a dozen times of turning the camera on and off and pushing eject... the camera suddenly fully ejected the tape. I have no idea why.

I could not get a photo but the tape door was literally half way between open and closed.

I suspect that an old cheap TDK tape may have had bad lube in it, that froze up the gears. But i dont know. I am going to get a head cleaner just in case.
Yes that's what I said. Years ago TDK had wet lube trouble with their tapes, I've seen the magnetic oxide peeling off a TDK tape as it was being played.

Like an egg timer with a little pile of oxide building up .. at a convention right in front of the client. No way to hide that and thankfully she passed out. Later we blamed that on the food. True story.

Tyson chuck that tape and buy a current TDK head cleaner .. and consider a replacement for the cam.

Cheers.
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