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Old November 19th, 2010, 08:13 PM   #16
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In post #9, the OP said "At this stage I am going with the JVC!! ".

My read of the OP was that he'd clearly settled on a semi shoulder design yet the thread, TO ME, seemed to ignore that and was turning into an XF love fest blind to the XF having the well known poor Handycam design for handheld/shoulder rigification.
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Old November 19th, 2010, 10:35 PM   #17
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In post # 9, Melcom did ask "BUT, can someone please tell me about the picture quality and size between the 3?" Earlier, he had asked: "How does the image quality compare between the EX3,HM700 and the XF305?"

I took the replies about the XF as attempts to respond to those questions rather than being the kind of fanboy blather that one sees on other sites.

But, nonetheless, I think the talk about how nice the Canon images can be brings us back to a point that you and I both made earlier.

There is no substitute for getting hands on the cameras to make your own comparison and see what makes a difference for you. If Melcom thinks the Canon pictures are better, are they "better" enough for him to want to change his mind about the JVC?
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Old November 20th, 2010, 03:35 AM   #18
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I do like all three of the cameras and all three have features that I find are important to me. Again I will mention that I do not mind change. The only thing at this stage I like on the Sony is the fact that some features stay the same moving from Sony to Sony. That said, I started out with a Canon then moved to the Sony and this emphasizes the fact that I do not at all mind change. As long as its for the better of coarse. From what I have read, the physicality of the Sony is nothing near the JVC. The only reason why I am looking at the Canon in the first place is because its a good camera and I gather that it has very good image quality. HOWEVER, as mentioned, it lacks other features that are important to me. This is why I am trying to find out more about canon's replacement camera for the xlh1. Then we would be comparing apples with apples.

Doug, this brings me to my next question, what do you mean when you say that the hm700 is not in the same class as the xf300?

I dont really care much for the name on the camera! To me the cameras are all expensive and in the same price range but each offers its own pros and cons. The more expensive battery systems for the JVC bothered me but the fact that B&H offers a mail in rebate for a battery system overrules this problem. The cards that the cameras use as well as the format also plays a role here. Working with Mac the JVC seems to make my life as easy as it could be! Again I might be wrong and I yes I am aware that its now a days very simple to rectify such a problem. BUT if I don't have to, why should I?

Jay,

Another question regarding the mbps that you touch on earlier. Does working with higher mbps mean that i will have less recording time on any sized card compared to the lower mbps? Image quality is based on several factors, does this play a big role? Surely if we compare these picture qualities to one another the difference is minor, otherwise there would be no comparison in the first place? I definitely do not want to work with files that are twice the size compared to the time laps of the footage if the image quality is minor? Is the higher mbps better for slow motion?

Les,

You are definitely reiterating some of the key elements to why I was interested in the JVC to begin with!!
The fact that the JVC seems to be a more professional camera build wise makes the "upgrade" itself much greater! In terms of upgrading myself in the industry! I might be wrong here again because I know very little of the industry itself...

This is why I am getting this out there so that people who actually know can help me make the right decision!

Thanks for everyones input!

Melcom
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Old November 20th, 2010, 05:35 AM   #19
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Melcom,
The higher mbps of the XF means bigger files than the HM700 and EX. Time lapse, slo-mo and normal time files will all be bigger (50mbps vs 35mbps).

I think you need to do some research of the many threads about the cameras. Here's a comparison of the XF with the EX: XDCAM-USER.com Canon XF305 Review with Sample XF/EX clips

That blog gives you a good idea of the image and ergonomic issues.

When I looked at these cameras, I felt the XF delivered similar image quality as the EX but at the cost of a higher file size and you had to work harder at getting it in low light. 50mbps 4:2:2 has zero value to me. I also knew some of the ergonomics of the XF such as the disabled zoom rocker and battery compartment design would drive me bonkers. YMMV.

As for a rumored solid state XL, that was supposed to happen in Sept but didn't. Again, you can find threads on that topic.
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Old November 20th, 2010, 06:30 AM   #20
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hi

Melcom I just sold my JVC 700 with the Fuji 17 lens and the biggest problem I had with it was the chroma fringing and aberations of the lens and yes I tried the Canon lens too and it was no much better. In low light the 700 is not very good . the canon has better low light capabilities. I like the JVC for its shoulder mount and the Canon is not as ergonomic for hand held work. I still have the JVC HM 100 . So I think feature wise and image wise the JVC can't compete with the Canon just my opinion but I owned both and used the 700 for 11 months

Cheers to all and Les we need to get together sometime since we are both In Boca lol


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Old November 20th, 2010, 06:48 AM   #21
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1/3" CCD's, I sure would like to see a published minimum illumination on this and other JVC cams.

JVC Professional Specifications page
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Old November 20th, 2010, 10:06 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Les Wilson View Post
No matter what you do, a rear VF design does not have the same weight distribution and handling characteristics as a side mounted VF as in the XL, EX3 and HM700 designs. The HM700 sits on the shoulder right out of the box. Interchangeable lenses are great. I wish I could afford one. These are apparently important factors to the OP and he's getting an HM700. This thread ought not turn into a camera war.
Sorry if my post came across that way...one of the posts had a question about the Canon so I thought I'd share my opinions with a possible solution for shoulder mount. I know a bunch of news guys who wont look at anything other than a true shoulder mount and I understand the reason. Hopefully Canon will offer a solution for that!
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Old November 20th, 2010, 12:29 PM   #23
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The XL mounts ( and I imagine the EX3 ) are helped further by adding batteries and receivers on an aft plate.

Last edited by Don Parrish; November 21st, 2010 at 07:47 AM.
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Old November 20th, 2010, 10:12 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Melcom van Staden View Post

Jay,

Another question regarding the mbps that you touch on earlier. Does working with higher mbps mean that i will have less recording time on any sized card compared to the lower mbps? Image quality is based on several factors, does this play a big role? Surely if we compare these picture qualities to one another the difference is minor, otherwise there would be no comparison in the first place? I definitely do not want to work with files that are twice the size compared to the time laps of the footage if the image quality is minor? Is the higher mbps better for slow motion?

Melcom
I think most of this question had been addressed by other posters, so I'll just add a couple of comments.

First, I have done very little work with slow motion, but my sense is that the higher data rate can be better for slow motion. That is "can be" not "always will be." Depends on how slow you want to go and to whom or for what you are delivering your video. For more knowledgeable information, I suggest you check through the NanoFlash forum because this is the kind of thing that gets pretty heavily discussed there.

The second thing about the higher Mbps rates is that they have more color depth which may give you more to work with when doing color correction or grading. At this point, I'm with Les in saying that 50mbps 4:2:2 really would not make any difference for what I do.

All that said, let me add a complication to your search. One big thing you said you want is instant compatibility with FCP. Have you considered the new AJA Ki Pro Mini? As I understand it, the KPM will record Pro Res 4:2:2, and that might equalize this aspect of camera choice.
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Old November 21st, 2010, 06:37 AM   #25
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Jay...good point about data rate for slo-mo. I shoot 720p/24 at 60fps to maximize the data rate. Love the results even at 35mbs.

I looked at the specs again on the HM700 and I can see how Melcom landed on it:
JVC Professional Technical Description page

The HM700 has Native File Recording to record .mov files for drag and drop into FCP or to record in the usual XDCAM .mp4 format. I also see that there's an SxS recorder attachment to record to both SDHC and SxS simultaneously. That recorder leverages the JVC sandwich body design so that it sits between the body and the battery. Not only can any of the usual recorders be added but JVC could conceivable put one in it's sandwich case. There's also variable frame rate, continuous clip mode, Canon and Fujinon glass...cache recording...simultaneous downconvert and output to DV port....simultaneous SD SDI while recording HD... peaking .... lots of pro features that balance nicely on the shoulder at a competitive price point
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Old November 21st, 2010, 07:11 AM   #26
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Les,

Thanks for the link regarding the Canon! It was very interesting to see some of the poor functionality aspects of the camera! The JVC beats the Sony and the Canon in this department hands down! I came across some reviews of the hm700 where it is mainly compared to the EX3. Horses for courses here!! The JVC has an amazing form factor but lacks in the resolution department with the 720 sensor. I would rather have a better camera to work with than a better picture for my shooting conditions! How much worse is the image quality on the JVC? I see in one review they mention the actual line are 800 compared to Sony's 940. Some insight on this?

I cannot find any reviews where the JVC gets compared to the Canon, but I dont really care for the Canon that much at this point in time as I want to have the ca,era on my shoulder without having to rig anything.

I will most definitely be shooting in temperatures above 40c ( 104 f ) and above!! This is a major problem as I see that JVC lists the highest operational temperature to be only 40c?????
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Old November 21st, 2010, 01:27 PM   #27
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I definately see what you see in the JVC in terms of features and shape. You may want to take a good look at the EX3. I've seen that it's in use in projects in Afghanistan and Africa. Supposedly, the viewfinder is to die for. There are also good add-ons that make it balance on your shoulder the way you like. Westside AV has a popular one and they also are shooters with that camera. They are a DVinfo sponsor.

Also, you may want to contact Rada-Productions and East Pleasant Pictures on Vimeo. They published some nice documentaries about NGOs helping the people living on Lake Tanganyika. They may have some advice.

East Pleasant Pictures

RADA-Productions
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Old November 21st, 2010, 02:29 PM   #28
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Interesting footage.

Melcom, if you are interested in the EX3 and getting FCP-compatible files, check out the discussion on the soon-to-be-released AJA Ki Pro Mini which apparently is designed to work with EX cams as well as the current Canon XLH1, among others. This would give you ProRes files.

KI Pro Mini
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Old November 24th, 2010, 02:18 PM   #29
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Lets conclude this thread by a vote shall we?

I vote JVC gy-hm700.

S0...

1 votes JVC gy-hm700
0 votes Sony EX3
0 votes Canon xf 305
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