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Old November 26th, 2010, 09:04 AM   #1
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1080 60p Do we actually have this ??

In looking for a new camera I struggle everyday to keep up with technology. Everytime I read an article I find something else I need to learn about. I asked myself what is the latest and best format?

I was looking to see if the new line of cameras for 2010-11 capture 1080 60p. Somewhere in my mind years ago I saw a television displayed, it was 1080 60p. It was an excellent picture but no disc, players, or broadcast were availalble, just this special display. Here we are 10 years later with the XF line, XD line and new panasonics, and I thought 1080 60p would be one of the modes. I knew the newer TV's are but then I couldn't find that info either. So I back up and start looking for 1080 60p televisions. So then I find a new sales cliche' "Full HD 1080p". Sony BRAVIA 40" 120Hz 1080p Widescreen LCD HD Television, 720/60p, 1080/24p, 1080/60i, 1080/60p HDm Motionflow 120Hz Technology, Ambient Sensor, More"

So I look to see if there is content and players produced for a TV at 1080 60p. Everytime I see a site for players or disc is says 1080p not 1080 60p.

Then I find a camera, HDC-HS700 and HDC-TM700. Just 2 cameras 1080 60p.

So I am guessing that this format is actually there but basically unused.

Is blue-ray 1080 60p ?
are the current NLE's capable of the 1080 60p ?
Are new pro cameras ( XF XD pani etc.) 1080 60p ?

There just seems to be a lot of info (and misinfo) to ingest lately, formats, bit rates, compression. And that doesn't even include dealing with the uncompressed stuff or learning NLE's. 3D is here, is that 1080 60p ??

There use to be guides and books to help with photography. But videography is proving to be a fast moving target, If anyone knows a good thick guide to videography please list it.

this is an interesting read from 2006 http://broadcastengineering.com/hdtv...-1080p-beyond/
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Old November 26th, 2010, 09:27 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Parrish View Post
In looking for a new camera I struggle everyday to keep up with technology. Everytime I read an article I find something else I need to learn about. I asked myself what is the latest and best format?
Best is really a dangerous word.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Parrish View Post
So I am guessing that this format is actually there but basically unused.
It's used plenty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Parrish View Post
Is blue-ray 1080 60p ?
No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Parrish View Post
are the current NLE's capable of the 1080 60p ?
Any professional ones are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Parrish View Post
Are new pro cameras ( XF XD pani etc.) 1080 60p ?
Some are.but I'd be really careful about what I called "professional".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Parrish View Post
There just seems to be a lot of info (and misinfo) to ingest lately, formats, bit rates, compression. And that doesn't even include dealing with the uncompressed stuff or learning NLE's. 3D is here, is that 1080 60p ??
There's always been a lot to learn. Most shooters have thankfully been spared from it because the options were so expensive it didn't merit discussion in non-professional circles. When shooting 60p meant you had to spend $80k on a camera, people buying $3k didn't need to be in the discussion. Now that you can buy $800 cameras that shoot 60p, the discussion needs to be had.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Parrish View Post
There use to be guides and books to help with photography. But videography is proving to be a fast moving target, If anyone knows a good thick guide to videography please list it.
Photography and videograpy are much the same. An accomplished photographer can pick up a video camera, learn some basic rules, and produce nice work in an amazingly short period of time. Its the folks who have little background in creating images of any kind who really struggle. Especially with creating video on DSLRs.

Good videography is an interdisciplinary pursuit. It's a conglomeration of learning how to light well, learning how to move the camera, learning the fundamentals of good sound capture, learning the editing craft, learning how to be a basic colorist, and understanding basics of compression. There's even more, but if you plan to do everything on your own, there's a ton to learn.
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Old November 26th, 2010, 05:04 PM   #3
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Don,

Most cameras you can afford that give 60P are 720 not 1080.

to me, the only advantage of using 60p is the ability to control the frame rate either in camera or the play back rate in post. the question begs, how much is that actually worth or necessary for what you do?

Blu-ray is 1080 60 interlaced.

Perrone's last statement is so true it is staggering!!! You wont get intellectually slow in this pursuit!!!
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Old November 27th, 2010, 07:17 AM   #4
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Thanks for the replies.

I started shooting in the 70's with a Yashica twin lens, then to a35mm and a 645 super, then to video in the 90's and to an XL1S somewhere near 2001. I would just like to learn the workflow better, The NLE's are so in depth. I had Vegas 3 and 4 but only learned what I needed to get the job done. Burning a DVD was an adventure to learn on my own. I just wish there was a book that connected the recording technology to the editing technology, codecs, batch processing, broadcast requirements etc.

As far as 1080 60p, very few TV's I find support it, very few camcorders support it, no broadcast or DVD's that I no of support it. The EX3 and XF305 do not but the F3 will. The best technology always seems to rise to the top but 60p seems to be stuck, And I hope 3D falls short so technology can just take a rest for while.

It is easy to imagine that we will reach the limits for pushing content over cable and satellite, wouldn't it be funny if we had to go back to antenna ( OTA ) .



With more research I may be wrong about the 60p on TV's. Seems many people complaining on old forums their sony was 60p but not 24p. PS3 is supposed to be 60p. While looking at NewEgg they no longer even list the TV specs. I just wish everyone would say how many lines the TV has, 1080 and then list which signal it will display 60p 60i, 24p etc, and stop putting the "p" after the 1080.

Last edited by Don Parrish; November 27th, 2010 at 07:54 AM.
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Old November 30th, 2010, 12:03 PM   #5
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Content delivery is, I think, well behind where 1080p60 would be viable. I'm sure the marketing folks will jump on it as soon as they can, though! Maybe when "UV-ray" comes along... ;-)

Blu-ray can do 720p60, but all else is either interlaced or 24 fps. Digital Cable and streaming video services like Netflix are lower-bandwidth than Blu-ray, so going to 1080p60 *and actually realizing an improvement in apparent resolution* would be a big leap, methinks.

720p60 is still a great alternative to 1080i60 (a.k.a. 30) in situations where you want the smooth, video-esque playback, but without the headaches of interlacing. Interlaced video can still look nice, but is highly dependent on whatever is presenting it to make this happen. Just compare playback of 1080i in Windows Media Player and VLC Player to see this. And TVs are the same way. I hate to rely on the playback software/hardware more than I have to, which is what makes the 60p modes so nice.

Best,
Aaron
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