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Old April 1st, 2011, 11:32 AM   #1
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James Cameron

interesting read.
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Old April 1st, 2011, 02:55 PM   #2
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Re: James Cameron

IMO this will die in the experiment stage.

We're just too lazy to re-train our eyes - we like to watch movies at 24p and video/tv at 60i.
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Old April 1st, 2011, 05:50 PM   #3
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Re: James Cameron

It'll be interesting to see how much sway James Cameron actuallly has over the industry. I'm going to follow this just to see how many people "buy in" on the idea just BECAUSE it's Cameron suggesting it
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Old April 2nd, 2011, 02:46 AM   #4
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Re: James Cameron

There were earlier experiments with higher frame rates. One was in a motion-simulator ride and I believe that there might have been some IMax films that were shot at higher frame rates.

Historically, the only reason films were shot at 24 FPS was to provide a good representation of motion using the least amount of film. That limitation doesn't apply nearly as much with digital filmmaking.

We're already at 30 FPS with 1080p30.
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Old April 2nd, 2011, 09:51 AM   #5
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Re: James Cameron

Agree. I think it will be interesting to see how many people will drink the koolaid simply because James is mixing it. Personally, I don't have any issues shooting with higher framerates, but what do I know?
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Old April 2nd, 2011, 11:03 AM   #6
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Re: James Cameron

24fps was selected to allow for the additional playback of the optical soundtrack - before that film was shot at 16 and 18 fps - plenty fast enough for 'smooth' playback. Silent super 8 cameras still have this option.
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Old April 2nd, 2011, 02:33 PM   #7
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Re: James Cameron

I can't say if folks will buy into it because of Cameron, but I'll *some* folks will give it a go. It's another creative option after all.

I'm thinking that 24p won't necessarily go away at all, but I don't see a problem with 48 or 60p either.

24p is just a psycho-visual effect that we've come to associate with movies and it gives a distant, unreal effect.

There's no particular reason why movies can't change and use a higher frame rate, it's just mental association.
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Old April 2nd, 2011, 03:21 PM   #8
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Re: James Cameron

I'm not saying its a bad idea but I don't see it happening any time soon. Its a lot of money to switch over both on the shooting and projecting side. I could see it in limited venues like iMax theaters but thats it.
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Old April 2nd, 2011, 03:28 PM   #9
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Re: James Cameron

Very interesting, thanks Wayne.
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Old April 2nd, 2011, 05:55 PM   #10
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Re: James Cameron

It's an interesting variation on the 'standard' - whether or not it will BECOME the standard - who knows? Why should it?

4:3 use to be the cinematic standard, and it became the television standard by default. Various wide screen formats were available BEFORE television - but it was televisions' impact on the box-office that pushed 'wide screen' to become the standard of cinema - even though there are MANY 'wide screen' standards. (As my engineer brother says 'That's the great thing about standards, there are so many of them.)

Now 16:9 is becoming standard - for television sets - but not for film distribution (thank God).

24/25 fps in cinema - 30f/60I NTSC - 25/50PAL - LOT of legacy equipment out there. Any push to change over the STANDARD for shooting and projection to 48 or higher is going to get push-back. Would need some serious marketing "Velvet Vision"! (you saw it here first).

Considering how flat 3d is going over (Pun intended - and no, they're not getting the return they hoped on it) I don't see another 'gimmick' being ginned up successfully any time soon.
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Old April 2nd, 2011, 05:58 PM   #11
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Re: James Cameron

If you want realism then 60p is the minimum. 120p or more would be much better.

For the 8K Ultra High Definition TV system currently in development by NHK, the BBC and the EBU a frame rate of anything up to 300p is being proposed (300p is a convenient multiple of both 50p and 60p).

8K TV is at about the same stage of development as HD TV was 20 or 25 year ago, but then recording 2 hours of 1080 60p on to something the size of a postage stamp seemed like science fiction just 10 years ago.

I think frame rate will eventually be a creative choice that we make to achieve the effect we require, just like choosing the focal length of a lens or opting for shallow depth of field..
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Old April 2nd, 2011, 11:18 PM   #12
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Re: James Cameron

I think the 24 frames per second "mental association" is being way over played. 24 frames per second came about to save film. It was deemed to be the minimum frame rate that could be used for a motion pictures without extremely annoying flicker. "Artistic aesthetics" had nothing to do with it. Hollywood big bucks had everything to do with it - saving big bucks in production costs that is. It was selected based on a spec called "minimally acceptable" frame rate. Projector development engineers relentlessly worked to reduce the 24 frames per second flicker. To anoint it as something that is virtually sacred is a joke. Thank God for someone like James Cameron who is willing to take on a staid and tired OLD system and bring it into is this century; that's terrific. As soon as he is successful, everyone can stop pretending how wonderful 24P is.
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Old April 3rd, 2011, 05:35 PM   #13
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Re: James Cameron

Good afternoon,

If I recall correctly with film 24 frames is what was needed to link up with the audio of the time.
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Old April 3rd, 2011, 06:07 PM   #14
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Re: James Cameron

Audio can sync with any frame rate, as long as there is a timing reference to match the audio signal to specific frames of a film.

In double system sound, the audio recorder would record a reference signal that provided precise speed information from the camera. Later, in post, that camera speed information would be used to "resolve" the audio tracks from the recorder to fullcoat that was used in editing. The speed reference would allow the audio signal to sync with specific frames on the fullcoat, that would precisely match the frames on the film itself.

Today, audio can be incorporated into the digital file so speed reference is no longer a problem. With accurate SMTPE timecode on both camera and recorder, a frame rate reference is unnecessary in double-system sound.

And digital projectors aren't limited by mechanical shutters or motors, so it's much easier to develop systems with higher frame rates.
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