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Old May 10th, 2011, 06:51 PM   #16
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Re: DVD vs Hard Drive

Yes, Stelios, it is frightening.

And I think the answer is that no, they probably won't be able to see any of your digital archive - UNLESS - you keep it online somewhere in the "cloud" and pay some service to keep it safe and viewable in a browser.

Or print it to paper!!!

Oh yeah - how permanent is computer printout? Really!

Many many many years ago I was very serious about large format black and white photography - to the point that I took classes with people like Minor White and Ansel Adams. And I learned how to process for archival permanence. It was pretty simple - just a matter of chemistry, and getting special storage boxes that were truly acid free. a bit laborious, true, but something you owed to anyone who would purchase one of you prints. Now the idea of permanence is really twisted. A lot of institutions are struggling with the same question of preservation of digital archives as museums and libraries convert their collections to digital. But somehow it will never be the same as paper. I remember in college having a class at Harvard's rare book library - and sitting at a table looking at Isaac Newton's actual handwritten notebooks. Right there on the table in front of me - what a wonderful sensation of historic continuity. The plus of digital - everyone can look at Newton's notebooks without getting up from their computer. The negative - it's sort of a so what experience. Nothing but bits, nothing genuine - only the palest shadows of the palest shadows of the real thing.

Oh well, maybe nobody cares any more.
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Old May 10th, 2011, 07:08 PM   #17
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Re: DVD vs Hard Drive

My system is fairly simple:

I store all source and project files on one HDD at the time of project creation. I can re-render if needed in future. As I fill a drive, I buy an enclosure and label the drive. Cost, about $0.10/GB

I store all rendered files on a separate HDD as I render. If my source drive fails, I have the rendered project. As I fill a drive, I buy an external enclosure and label the drive. Cost, about $0.10/GB

I store my most valuable renders on a SD card and keep separate from my computer (at office) in case of fire or other disaster. My understanding is SD cards are reliable long term, but obviously this hasn't been conclusively proven since they haven't been around for decades yet. Cost, about $1/GB.
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Old May 10th, 2011, 10:46 PM   #18
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Re: DVD vs Hard Drive

I still think inexpensive mirrored hard drives are the way to go. If you periodically consolidate your data, the cost effectiveness just keeps getting better and better over time.

When I started archiving to hard drives, mirrored 100GB drives were around US$50-150. Now I can get mirrored 1TB drives for the same price - and I'm starting to see 2GB drive prices heading in the same direction. With a dual hot-swappable enclosure it's a no brainer.

Whenever I see large drives dropping in price, I buy a set and consolidate all the data, and use the older/smaller drives for current projects. Very cost effective and efficient.
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Old May 10th, 2011, 10:52 PM   #19
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Re: DVD vs Hard Drive

Hard Drives over DVDs. LTOs if the budget allows for it. Other options: Digibeta and HDCAM (SR), etc.

The question really isn't: How long will it last; rather: How long do you want it to last and what price are you willing to pay for it?
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Old May 11th, 2011, 12:03 AM   #20
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Re: DVD vs Hard Drive

Not "how long will it last", but "how long before I need to do another maintenance cycle."
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Old May 11th, 2011, 01:15 AM   #21
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Re: DVD vs Hard Drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Andrada View Post
Yes, Stelios, it is frightening.

And I think the answer is that no, they probably won't be able to see any of your digital archive - UNLESS - you keep it online somewhere in the "cloud" and pay some service to keep it safe and viewable in a browser.

Or print it to paper!!!

.
Well Jim well said. I suppose I am going to print those memorable moments for them to see....


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Old May 11th, 2011, 06:12 AM   #22
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Re: DVD vs Hard Drive

But 19th Century glass plate negatives could be around even longer.
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Old May 11th, 2011, 08:12 AM   #23
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Re: DVD vs Hard Drive

I believe that Mel Gibson's "Apocalypto" was shot on high-definition digital video, using the Panavision Genesis cameras. Does this mean that in 10-20 years it will "loose" it's high definition or unable to play? Interesting thought...

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Old May 11th, 2011, 12:42 PM   #24
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Re: DVD vs Hard Drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale View Post
But 19th Century glass plate negatives could be around even longer.
And look how long some cave paintings have been around.... :-)
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Old May 11th, 2011, 01:09 PM   #25
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Re: DVD vs Hard Drive

Is anyone here archiving to Blu-ray? That's my plan right now.
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Old May 11th, 2011, 01:20 PM   #26
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Re: DVD vs Hard Drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stelios Christofides View Post
I believe that Mel Gibson's "Apocalypto" was shot on high-definition digital video, using the Panavision Genesis cameras. Does this mean that in 10-20 years it will "loose" it's high definition or unable to play? Interesting thought...

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The studios commonly make 35mm black & white RGB separations for archiving feature films.
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Old May 11th, 2011, 04:41 PM   #27
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Re: DVD vs Hard Drive

Re Glass plates - I've actually used them. Not for photos, but for astronomical spectrograph analysis.

At school, we had quite a collection of astronomical photos, etc that were taken starting in the mid 1800's (I think the first camera - telescope photo would date to around 1840.)

Glass is great - rather permanent, and stable enough for detailed measurements.

But - it doesn't like being shaken or dropped. Our plate stacks were a 5 story building inside, but isolated from, a regular 3 (or 4??) story building. The stacks had separate foundations and were mounted on springs and shock absorbers, and it was sort of like getting into an elevator to enter the stacks - there was a space of an inch or so between the inner building and the outer building.

Anyhow, I think the point is that archiving ANYTHING is not a toss it on the shelf and forget it operation. It takes management, and effort to keep the assets in as close to perfect condition as possible. Air conditioning and filtration etc for physical assets, continuous checking and copying for digital assets. Probably the easiest thing for individuals would be to store your data in the "cloud" and let them keep it safe (at a price) - for as long as whatever cloud company you use stays in business.

Oh - as I remember reading, cave paintings don't like people breathing on them or they deteriorate.
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Old May 11th, 2011, 05:50 PM   #28
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Re: DVD vs Hard Drive

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean Sensui View Post
And look how long some cave paintings have been around.... :-)
And even then, it's a maintenance problem. The most valuable caves are sealed. You can only walk on planks. Etc.
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Old May 12th, 2011, 02:47 AM   #29
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Re: DVD vs Hard Drive

well then I suppose the moral of the story is:
enjoy them today as tomorrow might not be around...

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Old May 12th, 2011, 02:55 AM   #30
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Re: DVD vs Hard Drive

All archival work requires maintenance, paintings etc are regularly checked my museums etc. Although, It appears that digital media needs more intensive maintenance than other media, which does add a cost that needs to be budgeted for.
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