help me "reverse engineer" this problem? at DVinfo.net

Philip Fass · November 27th, 2011, 10:24 AM

I just watched a new DVD, "Page One" about the NY Times:

Page One: Inside the New York Times (2011) - IMDb

The PQ was generally OK, but the DVD includes a section of Additional Scenes (outtakes). Only these have incredible problems with stair-stepping. For example, the edge of a rectangular conference table, taken at about a 45 degree angle and from a few feet above, looks like the steps of an Egyptian pyramid.

Unless all these extra scenes just happened to be taken by a second unit with a really bad or poorly adjusted camera, and that's why they were considered outtakes, I can't understand why these particular shots would be so different. It's not like uncorrected color. What else could account for the difference?

Andrew Smith · November 27th, 2011, 07:39 PM

How about a screen shot of the issue you are talking about?

Andrew

Vito DeFilippo · November 27th, 2011, 08:14 PM

I've seen this before on the special features sections of DVDs. I suspect these sections are much more highly compressed, or don't have the same level of care given to them to look good that the main movie would receive.

Just guessing, though.

Bill Davis · November 27th, 2011, 11:42 PM

A good thing to remember about any disc based storage medium is that it will have a fixed capacity.

Think of it as a "bit bucket."

When the disc (the bucket) is full, it's full.

So the "art" of compression is to fill that bucket up efficiently. The bucket has to hold the main program, but also has to hold the title graphics, the navigation code, and ancillary content like the "outtakes" material you're discussing.

It's very likely that when the producers were allocating the bucket - they sensibly used the majority of the capacity for the main program and rest of the necessary stuff, but when they got to the "outtakes, there wasn't a whole lot of capacity left, so they applied additional compression to fit as much of that content as possible into the room that was left.

That would be pretty common practice, IMO.

Philip Fass · November 28th, 2011, 06:37 AM

Unfortunately, I returned the DVD so I can't offer screen shots.

The difference in compression sounds reasonable. The doc was only 90 min, but there were a lot of "special features" and trailers.So maybe they made a creative judgement that the outtakes were the least important of the special features, because all the other types were OK.

November 27th, 2011, 10:24 AM	#1
Philip Fass Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Charlotte, VT Posts: 397	help me "reverse engineer" this problem? I just watched a new DVD, "Page One" about the NY Times: Page One: Inside the New York Times (2011) - IMDb The PQ was generally OK, but the DVD includes a section of Additional Scenes (outtakes). Only these have incredible problems with stair-stepping. For example, the edge of a rectangular conference table, taken at about a 45 degree angle and from a few feet above, looks like the steps of an Egyptian pyramid. Unless all these extra scenes just happened to be taken by a second unit with a really bad or poorly adjusted camera, and that's why they were considered outtakes, I can't understand why these particular shots would be so different. It's not like uncorrected color. What else could account for the difference?

November 27th, 2011, 07:39 PM	#2
Andrew Smith Equal Opportunity Offender Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,016	Re: help me "reverse engineer" this problem? How about a screen shot of the issue you are talking about? Andrew

November 27th, 2011, 08:14 PM	#3
Vito DeFilippo Trustee Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 1,585	Re: help me "reverse engineer" this problem? I've seen this before on the special features sections of DVDs. I suspect these sections are much more highly compressed, or don't have the same level of care given to them to look good that the main movie would receive. Just guessing, though. __________________ . http://www.nosmallroles.com

November 27th, 2011, 11:42 PM	#4
Bill Davis Trustee Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ 85260 Posts: 1,538	Re: help me "reverse engineer" this problem? A good thing to remember about any disc based storage medium is that it will have a fixed capacity. Think of it as a "bit bucket." When the disc (the bucket) is full, it's full. So the "art" of compression is to fill that bucket up efficiently. The bucket has to hold the main program, but also has to hold the title graphics, the navigation code, and ancillary content like the "outtakes" material you're discussing. It's very likely that when the producers were allocating the bucket - they sensibly used the majority of the capacity for the main program and rest of the necessary stuff, but when they got to the "outtakes, there wasn't a whole lot of capacity left, so they applied additional compression to fit as much of that content as possible into the room that was left. That would be pretty common practice, IMO. __________________ Classroom editing instructor? Check out www.starteditingnow.com Turnkey editor training content including licensed training footage for classroom use.

November 28th, 2011, 06:37 AM	#5
Philip Fass Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Charlotte, VT Posts: 397	Re: help me "reverse engineer" this problem? Unfortunately, I returned the DVD so I can't offer screen shots. The difference in compression sounds reasonable. The doc was only 90 min, but there were a lot of "special features" and trailers.So maybe they made a creative judgement that the outtakes were the least important of the special features, because all the other types were OK.