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Old December 10th, 2012, 12:53 PM   #16
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Re: The end of consumer video cameras?

Originally Posted by Trevor Dennis View Post
Jason do you post in the flickr G1X group?
I have in the past, but I did not post my pics from this last weekend. I can add them. They arenít spectacular, but they turned out as well as most any Iíve seen of what I shot. I LUV my G1X though!

To be fair Ė I have loved the Canon G Series for its compactness and portability and I know if you handle your IPhone well you can capture some decent photos with them, but I wouldnít trust anything *special* to one of them personally. Iím not going to leave my G1X behind on vacation in favor of the IPhone being easier to carry.

I actually shocked myself with an IPhone pic of my Starbucks with a little Rodarte cup thingy they sell that I Instagramed the other week. It came out with bokeh background and looked pretty cool lol.

Rodarte Starbucks | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Last edited by Jason Garrett; December 11th, 2012 at 12:24 AM.
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Old December 10th, 2012, 06:51 PM   #17
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Re: The end of consumer video cameras?

Originally Posted by Brian David Melnyk View Post
iPhone vs Hasselblad (and Nikon).
large print comparison on the street: 'It might be the same camera'
Errr, that's only a part of the conclusion, and really only refers to comparisons when they were trying to give the iPhone best possible chance - good lighting, average angle of view, no difficulty focussing, etc etc.

It's a pretty good video (better than I was expecting, well worth watching) and it makes very clear at the start that what a camera such as a DSLR has over the typical phone camera is versatility. There may not be a vast quality difference with a straightforward subject in good lighting, but in low light and a variety of other situations the iPhone loses hands down. Same with angle of view, response time, focussing on moving objects, lack of flexibility regarding lens angle etc etc. Conversely, where the iPhone has the clear advantage is that the size means you are far more likely to have it with you - better any camera than none on occasions.

To Phil Murray - when I made the reference to current images being unlikely to be around in the future in the same way as photographic prints have lasted, then whilst the technology may be there to preserve, will anybody bother? In film days, the expense meant you really thought before hitting the button - hence less images, but a greater "value" to each one - collections tended to be of more manageable sizes. Now, when thousands can accumulate on such as an iPad drive, the majority tend to be repetitive and often downright poor. (Through technique, not technology.) There may well be some nuggets - but they just get swamped by the dross.

The real change is the difference between what is called passive or active archiving. "Passive archiving" typically means leaving on a shelf and rediscovering decades later. Maybe a bit faded, but still viewable. Active archiving means what it says - you have to manage the archive. Forget about putting a hard drive full of files on a shelf and coming along after 30 years. Don't expect it to be much good for anything other than a paperweight.

Then come a technology change, it's all too often too much trouble to spend hours sorting and saving the ones that are really worth it. That's why I say that if "photography" means something transient to you, then such as camera phones are great. If the word means art, it's a different story. Horses for courses.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 02:29 AM   #18
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Re: The end of consumer video cameras?

I would suggest that's possible to create art on an iPhone, just as you could with a Polaroid camera. Although, perhaps to be art there has to be something about the piece of art which is uniquely about the nature of the iPhone.

However, the dedicated camera will be more versatile tool with a broader range of options.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 06:36 AM   #19
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Re: The end of consumer video cameras?

Ha. yes, i am definitely not arguing that an iPhone is better than a Hasselblad (disclaimer: i have neither!). but for the average person, even a large print (well shot) is indistinguishable between the two. that is a humbling thought for heavily invested professionals...

of course sports photography, or low light shooting etc etc is a nightmare on an iPhone, but this technology will keep getting better. even now, if a Hasselblad and an iPhone were the same price, i think most average consumers would opt for the convenience and versatility of the iPhone...
while i don't think consumer cameras are dying, it is interesting to not only see the evolution of the technology, but of culture along side it. i've lived in technology poor (and everything else poor...) Africa these last 6 years and visit Canada once a year and the speed of evolution is striking. suddenly i'm at a cabin at the lake and eveybody from kids to the elderly have iToys that they don't put down! it is quite strange and face to face communication is a real casualty. evolving from letters to emails to texting and now people have whole conversations with PICTURES on instagram. i kind of get it, the immediacy of sharing experiences with your friends and family (and likely the government agencies storing all this data, but that's another topic...) and it can be somehow artful and witty, but it also seems pretty disposable and often banal...

anyway, the average person is more likely to upload video blurbs and instagrams than actually edit, color correct, photoshop, transcode, etc etc... so i think if the quality is 'good enough' (which it seems to quickly becoming MORE than good enough), consumer cameras will become more and more a specialty item- especially as the iTechnology overcomes the technical inadequacies.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 02:39 PM   #20
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Re: The end of consumer video cameras?

#1 - it's the imaging device you have with you that counts - no device, no chance to "capture the moment".

#2 - quality is always important, but again, if you aren't capturing the content, at ANY quality, well, refer to #1.

#3 - there will ALWAYS be a demand for "high end" toys that do a better job, but when the low end is scuffling with the latest phone or tablet, and the quality difference is minimal to the "average" user, it's very easy to see how "consumer" video cams and P&S's (most of which alsot take passable video now TOO) are a "vestigial tail". Multi-function devices that take "good" stills and video (as well as keep your calendar, messaging, and take your phone calls...) are where the market is at.

Just recently picked up a Sony RX100, first reaction was it is almost TOO small, but after playing with it, looking at the pictures AND 1080 60p video... I quickly realized it's pretty impressive. Still "testing", but more and more impressed. It's quite pricey for a "consumer" model, yet you know the technology will only get cheaper, better, and more available.

As far as "archiving", as long as one backs up on a regular basis, the odds are good the "1's and 0's can be preserved indefinitely. My main reservation is at last count the "media" files were well on the way to a six figure #.... and with 4Tb of storage starting to feel a bit "tiny"... well that's probably an entirely different problem! Have a "consumer" friend who last count had well over 80K of just pics... and is getting into video now, so maybe there needs to be a new mental condition "diagnosed" for this new media age?
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Old December 11th, 2012, 03:26 PM   #21
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Re: The end of consumer video cameras?

the future is no camera at all.
for a while, people will still play with smartphone and instagram.
Then, all these pictures downloaded to the cloud wil be in a database.
and in near future, you will just point your lens to something and receive by mail the best picture available on the net .... for 0.5 cents....
The only pictures you will still take are your family.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 06:13 PM   #22
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Re: The end of consumer video cameras?

Originally Posted by Dave Blackhurst View Post
........but when the low end is scuffling with the latest phone or tablet, and the quality difference is minimal to the "average" user, it's very easy to see how "consumer" video cams and P&S's ....... are a "vestigial tail".
But as that video Brian David Melnyk linked to demonstrated very clearly, then whilst the quality difference may be "minimal" to the average user in good light etc, it's a very different story in low light, or where fast response etc is needed - when a dedicated camera will show a far from minimal difference.

Or maybe what we may all agree on is the increasing demise of LOW END consumer cameras? Which may well have little advantage over such as camera phones. Whilst higher end cameras - both consumer and professional - will still keep a market share. They may not offer much difference for straightforward photographs in good light - but carry on in conditions far too challenging for the average phone or tablet, and offer features such as zoom lenses etc.
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Old December 11th, 2012, 08:55 PM   #23
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Re: The end of consumer video cameras?

iPad shooters drive me nuts... while I'm shooting civilized from the back of a venue not to disturb, they stand up from their seats to capture video... and cover the subject with their iPads...

I help with audio and video at my church; this past weekend while the kids were preparing for their Christmas program, gal comes to me and asks me for the WIFI password. I said I don't know. OK, I admit... it was not the truth. Turns out, she needed that to stream the program via Skype to her mom overseas.

I caught up with her at the end of the program while collecting the wireless mics from the kids. She says it was OK, she used her cell phone as WIFI hotspot and still did the live streaming, all she missed is the last few minutes - her cell phone battery died.

That's the kind of world we're living in today. Video camera? Who needs that? What for?
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Old December 12th, 2012, 06:37 AM   #24
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Re: The end of consumer video cameras?

a great example of the evolution of technology and creation is one given by Daniel Lanois, an outstanding artist and producer (he produced with Brian Eno a little known band called 'U2'. they have enjoyed moderate success in some obscure regions...).
He envisions an album recorded with just Zoom H4ns, praising both the quality of their recording (he actually likes the sound of the on-board compressor!) and the immediacy of being able to easily throw a bunch of H4ns in front of a band, anywhere at anytime, capturing the unique sonic attributes of various spaces, and enjoying the freedom of spontaneity.
Will H4ns replace Neumann mics running through API preamps into a ProTools system with Rosetta converters? Probably not, but they can offer some unique high quality recordings that would be impossible or unlikely with a boatload of gear...
there is an obvious appeal and demand for affordable, portable, quality devices that allow for the democratization of creation (even though they are often only used to create mountains of inane crap). The fact that Zacuto was testing an iPhone against an Arri Alexa speaks somehow to the quality of these devices, if not their relentless ubiquity...
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Old February 17th, 2013, 05:15 PM   #25
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Re: The end of consumer video cameras?

Six months ago I shot a personal 'talking-head' vlog post with my iPhone 4S and was surprised at how good the sound and video quality was. I wouldn't say it rivalled the Canon XA10 I had, but it was easily equal to any consumer-grade camcorder costing less than $1000.00, if not better.

The high quality of output from the iPhone gives me the idea that devices like it could eventually replace consumer and even some prosumer camcorders once the problem of how to fit in a fully functional zoom lens (the iPhone has only a fixed lens) with full AF, manual focus and iris/aperture control is solved. All without adding any significant bulk to the existing form factor. And adding high-quality stereo audio acquisition capabilities too, without killing the battery in a hurry.

One major stumbling block is that most of the aftermarket add-on lenses designed to work with the iPhone are designed to work with the iPhone's built-in lens, with the end result that image quality is sub-par. That's because the iPhone was never designed to handle anything more than casual, on-the-fly video and audio acquisition and wasn't designed to accept add-on lenses.

That said, I don't think that the iPhone/iPad will ever fully replace all camcorders/video cameras in existence. The laws of physics are such that they tend to dictate lenses with lots of high-quality glass, and relatively large sensors, if image quality is to be maintained.
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Old February 19th, 2013, 02:47 PM   #26
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Re: The end of consumer video cameras?

We had a camera club field trip at the weekend. A tourist couple asked how to access the river, and as that is where two of us were going they followed. The best shot was way over some serious rocks, and I clambered over with big CF tripod, and Canon 1DsMK3 plus backpack, and the tourists followed. Once across the rocks I duly started putting up tripod etc. and tourists suddenly whipped out an iPad and started taking pictures or video.

It was kind of ridiculous. I can see why folk would use their phones for that purpose, but this blooming great iPad with its pink protective cover, looked so incongruous. Bottom line is that conditions were terrible, and I bet their pictures were no different to mine. One of the club members did manage to find a winning shot despite the conditions, which does make you think twice about how you take pictures.

I'm referring to the yellow leaf three in from the left.

Marlborough Camera Club :: 2013 Field Trips

I took the guy jumping after seeing the action and rushing back to my truck for my 1DMK4 and longer lens, but I mostly took shite pictures.
Stills at:
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