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Old May 2nd, 2013, 04:24 AM   #1
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model release video

I shot some footage at a public garden for a jib and slider demo and there were a couple of kids playings so just in case I approached the parents and explained the situation and got them to state their names and give permission while I recorded.

why wouldn't this suffice as a geberal talent release? instead of getting everyone to fill in a form - just give a verbal release on camera? sure if you need 20 forms signed it easier to just hand them out but for 1 or 2 on an ad hoc basis why wouldn't this work?
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Old May 2nd, 2013, 06:25 AM   #2
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Re: model release video

Paul, I can't speak about where you live and perhaps even in our litigious society for some people it would suffice, "HEY, I've got you recorded saying that it's OK and you don't want any money for being in my shot that's being used for whatever purpose and is going to be seen worldwide" BUT like my lawyer says, "If it's not in writing, it doesn't exist!"
I would still have people sign off just to be sure. I'd rather kill one more tree than have to sit thru a trial because I didn't sign them off even though I have them on video.
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Old May 2nd, 2013, 10:24 PM   #3
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Re: model release video

Yeah it's getting that way here Don.

But Paul might get away with a verbal on camera release, 'the intent' is being quoted more and more. Don't quote me Paul, jeez :)

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Old May 3rd, 2013, 02:56 AM   #4
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Re: model release video

In a public area, I shoot and deal with the moaning perv patrol in a quiet and dignified manner. I explain that it's public, and here in the UK, shooting in a public place is perfectly ok.

I see the concept of the release, but getting the names and addresses of people with children? The kinds of people who do perv patrol don't seem the kinds of people to sign a release, provide their information and say yes to a stranger?

Broadcasters shooting in a public area - doing vox pops, for example only get releases from featured people. There is no way to tackle every parent and child in the shot.

My view is that the more people who give in to these people and start doing this kind of thing will kill off the industry. Spontaneous shooting will become impossible.

I do get approached by officials telling me I cannot shoot, and I tell them politely and firmly that I do not need their permission, and the person who complained has no grounds, but two options. They can remain where they are,or they can move - I however, am carrying on. The Police are usually now aware of the law, and will try to pursuade you to stop. If you say no, they get on the radio, get told you are not breaking any law, and they leave you alone. I do have a press card, and frankly that's the only time I ever get it out.

We need to stand up for our rights - which at least here, do support what we do. I cannot do the same on private property - but public is fine. The secret in confrontation is to be understanding,supportive but firm. Give them a business card, explain what you are doing, reassure them it's legit. If they still cannot believe (as some can't) that you are allowed to do what you are doing then ask them to contact the authorities and check for themselves. I was shooting on public green land a while back, and there were some children in the distance. A parent strode up and demanded I stop filming. I explained I would be finished shooting the disused railway line very shortly - and they were furious - absolutely certain I was a criminal! Ten minutes later, a Police helicopter appeared and landed near me! After shutting down,one officer strolled up and enquired what I was doing, so I explained. The angry parent looked pleased. It turned out to be total coincidence, and they'd landed as a practice - looking for suitable spaces to add to their landing list. The observer told me they'd actually had a complaint made about them by somebody near their airfield who was sure they were spying on here with their clever cameras. In the end I asked them if I could shoot them taking off. The pilot grinned and asked what I fancied? I looked a bit confused - he said how about I take off but then accelerate really close to the ground and then pull up once I'm going fast, and then clear those bushes at the end of the field. He also suggested I move closer to what he called his safe distance - much closer than I thought would be ok - damn windy, but a great shot. I guess the parents thought I'd been ticked off!
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Old May 3rd, 2013, 03:27 AM   #5
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Re: model release video

In the UK the nightmare is the definition of a public place.

For example a park or garden that the general public has access to may not be a public place as it may be owned and maintained but the local council.

Also a lot of the streets are owned and maintained by the council so you may need their permission to film there and it may be that they charge a fee or even insist that you prove your public liability insurance.

Shopping malls and car parks are another area where you may need the permission of the owner even though they are freely open to the general public.

As Paul has said the police tend to be very good regarding this but private security firms or even having a companies front door in the back of a legitimate shot can cause problems.

Having said all of that it is a total farce to see zillions of mobile phones recording concerts and events that used to be policed strictly in the past but get your pro video camera out or put up a tripod and you seem to be legit fodder for the do-gooders and jobs worths these days!
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Old May 3rd, 2013, 11:31 AM   #6
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Re: model release video

I took my DSLR to a school concert and told no go. Every other parent there was videoing with there phones.
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Old May 5th, 2013, 07:00 PM   #7
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Re: model release video

Had a quite unpleasant confrontation today - so made my public area post look a bit daft.

Not public land but private. A race track. Oval tarmac, Stock car racing. A couple of friends were going, and asked me to come. Not that interested but I figured it would be a good chance to test one of the cameras on different formats and shutter settings. Started off with a blue sky, and heavy ND, plus a higher shutter speed to let me work the lens where I wanted. all handheld, not time for tripods. A crash happened straight in front of me! A car bumped and headed for the safety fence about ten feet away = straight towards the camera. Driver sat in his seat but apart from nodding at a marshal, he didn't try to get out. Everyone ran - marshals and medics. Then I got a tap. I looked sideways and found his family and friends staring at me. They weren't small, either. They wanted me to stop shooting - got quite threatening. I'm also stupid. Attempting to justify what I was doing was not the best move, and being firm, but not rude (my usual attitude) was also not working. Looking for support from my friends, they'd all cleared off.

I can see that having your friend being rescued in front of you is not nice - but I completely misjudged this one. It genuinely didn't occur to me not to shoot - in fact the opposite. Not being a racing fan, is this normal = as in don't shoot a rescue? Everyone, including my friends were shocked I was shooting what could have been the chaps last moments. Did I do wrong here? Journalistically, I think carrying on was best, but morally (or tastefully) Maybe not.

What do others think?
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Old May 5th, 2013, 07:17 PM   #8
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Re: model release video

Paul, here in the US most racing fans really aren't shooting much of anything except a bit here and there with their cell phones. On the other hand as one that has shot professional racing (NASCAR) one of our jobs is to track a crash (if there is one-and there always is) and keep with the shot for as long as possible.
Now also keep in mind that at most tracks here where the big guys (NASCAR Sprint cup, Nationwide series and Camping World Trucks) run there can be as many as 6 to 8 cameras on the walls which are robotic (those are the ones I ran) as many as 8 hard stand cameras some on the top of the press box, and 8 to 12 handheld cameras which are generally held to the garage areas and sometimes the pits as long as they stay out of the way. the exact number depends on the track, which series is running and who's the main broadcaster. Be it ESPN, ABC, FOX, TnT, Speed Channel and in most cases it's a collaboration of 2 broadcast companies.
what I'm trying to get to is if you were shooting for TV and they tried to stop you THEY would have a problem but since you were shooting for yourself I guess they might get a bit annoyed however IMO you were not breaking a protocol and even if the driver were hurt and taken out in an ambulance you are within your right to record the incident and even sell the footage, at least here in the US. A sporting event might be held on private grounds but it is a public event that anyone can attend if they have a ticket.
Journalistically I think you were right in doing it, and if it were the chaps last moments, then they, the racing group needs to look at their safety measures because I've seen and been on camera for wrecks that jarred MY teeth and the drivers walked away. IMO you do what you think is right.
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Old May 6th, 2013, 05:03 AM   #9
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Re: model release video

That's good Don - these events aren't exactly Nascar! I just don't go racing, so wasn't sure what the protocol was - oddly, as the people shouting at me pointed out - nobody in the crowd had their phones out recording it - so I did wonder if there was some line crossed I didn't realise. The stadium do have cameras which they use to show to the bars and restaurants the track action - and I think they sell DVDs of each race too - but I paid to get in and was really playing with the camera - trying out the different formats and frame rates to see what worked best. No intention of using the material as all handheld, and wobbly cam - but it happened straight in front of me. Perhaps more interesting from the safety aspect as the onsite people seemed very much out of their depth with the rescue.
The video is set to private password is crash

You can see what I got, up to the point a hand pushed the lens down.

The stuff at the end is just wobblycam from the material just before the restart. From a video perspective, the two wire mesh fences make it virtually impossible to get clear views, and the area next to the wire is also the public path - so no way anyone would get away with sticks - just too many people moving.
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Old May 6th, 2013, 06:26 AM   #10
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Re: model release video

Hey Paul, Yeah after I posted I kinda figured it wasn't something like NASCAR but honestly, I didn't see anything wrong with what you did but that's just me. Oh well, next time I guess you'll know not to shoot when there's a crash. Which kind of negates the point of shooting the race but I guess since when you get out numbered discretion is the better part of valor and all that!
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Old May 6th, 2013, 07:35 AM   #11
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Re: model release video

Not sure what it is like these days but there used to be a rule when we worked for ITN that you didn't shoot such things as your first priority should be the safety and well being of any individual or others.

There was also the rule that as a front line journalist you had to edit material and make sure that there was no temptation for a news desk to use material if it was deemed inappropriate.

A good friend found the nose cone of the lockerbie plane but left the camera in the car and made sure that the professionals were allowed to see to the poor people that had perished.

He did offer lighting to assist though until the fire services were able to get their own rigs up but as he was ex Border TV and knew a lot of the area he gave more assistance with guiding the emergency services.

He was never the same after that night as he saw some very terrible things, but you will recall that the only footage of Pan AM flight 103 nose is from the following morning.

As for sports if you are there to cover the event you do so but once an incident has occurred it is not really appropriate to keep shooting the support services attending a scene.
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Old May 6th, 2013, 12:32 PM   #12
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Re: model release video

Gary,
In the case of your friend, I would have also left the camera in the car. Different set of circumstances. I guess in the case of Paul I kept thinking that he was paid to shoot and I missed the part where he wasn't. As one who has shot sports of many kinds and news as well, I keep thinking "it's my job" BUT like your friend, there are times when it's not your job to shoot it but to put the camera and help. I'm not as heartless as I sometimes seem and kudos to your friend for helping the way he did.
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