How to kill our videography market

[Kevin McRoberts]

Some slim chance their ad might not be utter hogwash...

You can (and should) price yourself as a commodity if you're only providing commodity-level service. Surely we've all done the "hang-at-the-back-of-the-room-and-hit-record" from time to time to fill out schedules at some point of our careers. All you need is a Canon VIXIA or the like, 1-2 mics, tripod... that's about it. To a degree, the availability and quality of video equipment HAS reached a level where top-notch technical expertise is optional, and for many jobs, artistic excellence is unnecessary. Our concept of what a "wedding video" has become may not be what some clients want or need... for $25/hr they're going to get straight-up "coverage," and maybe that's all they want (especially for meetings, presentations, etc). That's still well over twice what I got paid three years ago shooting local broadcast news.

Jobs that require more thought and skill obviously pay more... and they suggest as much in the ad. $100/hr for a 10-12hr day isn't a terrible day rate.

That said, most of the companies I tried in the past that booked frequent low-end projects with promises of possible higher-end work for their best people failed to understand that economic. Since most of their product was commodity, most of their clientele was looking for commodity, and the high-end jobs rarely happened. You don't go shopping for your engagement ring at Wal-Mart.

[Josh Bass]

I'm sure the ad is "legit", there are many services (or were) similar, TurnHere (has/had its own thread), yellow taxi, and quite a few others. These didn't really mention an hourly rate but instead paid somewhere in the neighborhood of $200 for a shoot and edit.

Re: films--yeah, the rate is okay, I was snarking about the fact that they believe someone's going to come to them to produce a feature film at all. I could however, see commercials (low budget, small business/local spots), and even music videos (I have seen some very crappy looking music vids on TV).

There are people who value production values and there are people that just need something, ANYTHING, done.

[Andrew Reyna]

I've never been able to charge people completely ridiculous inflated (professional) video market prices for my work, and maybe that's why I see services like TurnHere -> now Smartshoot as amazing, beautiful, innovative, value creating businesses, and not a thorn in my side.

[Josh Bass]

Its only a value if client gets something useful to them. Many times, with people who are willing to work for those rates, they won't. As for the pro prices, i understand not always being able to get $2000, or $5000, or whatever a gig is "truly" worth, but down in the $200s for the same amount of work is ridiculous. There can be a compromise area between the two.

[Gary Huff]

Originally Posted by Josh Bass

Its only a value if client gets something useful to them.

I think the hard part is demonstrating that the extra effort/cost can actually recoup the investment in business gain.

Can you explicitly demonstrate that for clients who might be otherwise interested in these services?

[Victor Nguyen]

so just wondering, is $25/hour a bad rate for weddings? I been breaking into Houston wedding market and work for 4 companies. They all pay me $25/hour.

[Gary Huff]

Originally Posted by Victor Nguyen

so just wondering, is $25/hour a bad rate for weddings? I been breaking into Houston wedding market and work for 4 companies. They all pay me $25/hour.

Depends on what you're doing and what you're bringing with you. If you're one of the primary shooters and have your own camera, then that's a terrible rate. If you're showing up and they are handing you a camera to get random b-roll that might be missed by one or two other shooters, then it's not quite as bad.

[Warren Kawamoto]

Victor, as reference, 10 years ago I used to pay my shooters $50 per hour.

[Brian Drysdale]

You need to factor in the cost of the equipment you're providing (you need to pay it off in a reasonable time scale), plus any insurance and office costs that you have. When running a business, the room you use at home has associated costs and you have to factor them in.

[Robert Benda]

Originally Posted by Victor Nguyen

so just wondering, is $25/hour a bad rate for weddings? I been breaking into Houston wedding market and work for 4 companies. They all pay me $25/hour.

Depends on if it's your gear and your experience, I suppose. If you provide your own gear? No, that's poor. $20-$50 an hour for the person PLUS gear "rental" fee, so to speak. For instance, if they provide the gear, $25 an hour is fine and good just starting out. If you shoot with your own 5d mark ii, lenses, and tripod? Just renting the camera body is $50-$100 from a company, so why are you free?

[Robert Benda]

DJs see a lot of these same Craigslist style cheapos. The Pros are the first thing that come to mind for a company that is trying to be national, but just farms out work. It's been done in some form forever, but I'm still getting hired and I'm 50% above market average.

Avoiding competing against cheap is why it is so key to cultivate a unique selling proposition. Why should someone hire YOU, specifically? What do you do differently? OR, in what ways are you noticeably superior?

Also placing yourself in places where good potential clients who like quality and value, over low price is key. A bridal showcase? No. The RIGHT bridal showcase? Sure. Same as other advertising. The tone and quality of your website can make a good impression and lead buyers to the conclusion you want: this guy is worth it.

[Ervin Farkas]

Craigslist is free, so anyone can post anything they want. There are tons of dreamers out there, and these ads are abundant in my market too, especially since a lot of movie production is taking place in Atlanta (GA offers tax breaks for movie production)... seems like Atlanta attracts more and more dreamers.

I started my video business about two years ago and I suppose my experience is pretty typical of beginners. You have to try everything available just to get your feet in the door. Not all CL is trash, I picked up a few good gigs. The more time you spend reading CL ads, the faster you can weed out the junk. You need to know your position on the scale of values, and act accordingly.

It is obvious that no serious video production can take place for $25/hour. On the other hand, when you need to put bread on the table, $25/hour is better than nothing, so instead of wasting time on the internet you might as well go shoot a boring conference. With time you will get known and instead of sorting through CL ads, you will have another task: to sort through offers and pick the one you really want to do.

The important thing is to never cease learning, so your quality can constantly rise, and be serious, professional in what you produce. Then, market up or market down, you WILL have gigs to work on.

[James Manford]

Completely agree Ervin.

I've seen people drop in quality in regards to the work they produce because they are simply getting too many job offers and being greedy.

When your starting out, you do more than the work required. When job offers are coming in, you become picky ...

[Chris Harding]

Hey Victor

Your rate you are being paid is also VERY subjective to how many hours they will give you as a minimum?

Having to jump in your car and drive 30 minutes to a 1 hour shoot brings your effective rate down to $12.50 an hour. (You also have to drive back so you might drive more than you shoot)

Even using their gear and with close by venues you still need to have an absolute minimum that they will pay you. You sadly also need to realise that your time starts from your house (in fact since you have to shower and change..even before) and ends when you get home so your $25.00 starts getting less and less per hour when you think carefully about it. Car wear and tear, fuel etc etc all comes into it unless they pick you up and drop you off.

Chris

[Josh Bass]

I would say that doing "portal to portal" (i.e. your time starts from when you leave your house and ends when you're back) will not sit well with many clients, they'll more likely be okay with time starts with arrival at venue and ends when you leave.

ON THE OTHER HAND, I don't really work hourly in the field (but I will when editing 'cause I can do that on my own time and not sacrifice other gigs). Many freelancers including myself work on a half day or day rate. Half day is 0-5 hours (again, I would say from time of arrival at venue 'til you're driving away), full day is 5-10 hours. So if you're okay with $25/hour, for instance, you could say you have a 5-hour minimum, or call it a half day rate and make it $125.

PS, even though it's called a half day, most people do their half day rate as 66% (2/3) of their full day, NOT half. So if your full day rate was $500, instead of half day being $250, it'd be more like $330.