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Old April 17th, 2014, 10:28 AM   #16
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Re: When will come out a 4K Canon or Panasonic handycam?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adriano Moroni View Post

Cliff Totten tells that AX100 the audio pre-amps are PRISTINE and VERY "beachtech XLR friendly".
What does he mean precisely with "beachtech XLR friendly"? I'm buying a mic for AX100 (Sony ECM-XYST1) but I still don't know how much the integrated mic works fine. Will Sony ECM-XYST1 be very better than integrated microphone?
What I mean by "Beachtech XLR friendly" is this:

Handycams in the past were often given noisy mic preamps that would hiss like 100 snakes. (the 1/8 inch powered jack input) Older Sony Handycam AGC circuits would often "breath and pump" pretty nasty.

Beachtek - Audio Adapters & Recording Equipment for Camcorders | Beachtek

These guys make nice adapters that have "AGC disable" circuits to help stabilize the problem that these Handycams used to have. (and other cameras too) Even in manual level adjust mode, older Handycams still had a pretty dirty noise floor.

This AX100? No so! Using the 1/8 inch audio input jack with manual levels is clean,...surprisingly clean. It's cleaner than any other Handycam I have tested. (including the CX760 and VG20)

So,..yes. If you want XLR input, any Beachtek adapter will give you fantastic results. (no AGC disable needed)

And about that new Sony plug in top mic. (cant remember the model number) It's sounds very good when plugged into the AS100 shoe. It will give you forced auto level when audio passes through the shoe. However, when you connect the supplied 1/8 inch cable to the audio in jack, full manual level control is unlocked. This produces excellent results.

If you want a handheld "run and gun" 4K (UHD) camera today. You have no other real choice. When IBCI happens in Q4, maybe...but not today.

Get an AX100...Test it for yourself and forget all the "talk" about it for a week. I strongly suspect you will be happy with it.

I was very, very, VERY skeptical of the AX100 before I bought it. I was fully expecting to hate it. I was still skeptical on the first day of shooting. After allot of "lab" testing and ridicules "pixel peeping" on my part...by day 5?...I WAS SOLD!

The AX100 passed my silly, nerdy, geeky tests and is now a happy, and respected member of my camera family.(Along side my EX1r, FS100 and VG20)

CT
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Old April 17th, 2014, 11:55 AM   #17
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Re: When will come out a 4K Canon or Panasonic handycam?

Thread moved here from "Industry News" forum since this isn't a news topic. Press releases, new product announcements, etc. are the only fair game for our Industry News forum. Thanks for understanding.
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Old April 17th, 2014, 03:21 PM   #18
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Re: When will come out a 4K Canon or Panasonic handycam?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff Totten View Post
And about that new Sony plug in top mic. (cant remember the model number) It's sounds very good when plugged into the AS100 shoe. It will give you forced auto level when audio passes through the shoe. However, when you connect the supplied 1/8 inch cable to the audio in jack, full manual level control is unlocked. This produces excellent results.
Can I ask you if you have used ot use Sony ECM-XYST1 mike? Or did you read this experience from other users? If you use Sony ECM-XYST1 mike and you like it, I think you will often use it. I'm thinking to buy it and to use it on the hot shoe of AX100 with 1/8 inch in endowment cable to get manual audio settings.
Thanks for your suggestions.

PS: if I understand fine, if I use another mike like Shure VP83 LensHopper or Rode Stereo Video Mic Pro with with 1/8 inch in endowment cable, the AGC is stuck. Right?
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Last edited by Adriano Moroni; April 17th, 2014 at 05:46 PM.
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Old April 17th, 2014, 03:33 PM   #19
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Re: When will come out a 4K Canon or Panasonic handycam?

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Originally Posted by Noa Put View Post
What more is it that you don't like about the ax100 if I may ask?
I have already said it: "beside than professional features, what I more hate of Sony AX100 is the hot proprietary shoe and the lid on it. In some hours I will involuntarily broke that lid." The another thing I don't like it its onboard mike. It aims aloft and it isn't a good perspective. But I still don't know the sound of that integrated mike, may be it will be sufficiently good for most of the shots. I hope, at least I can save money on the purchase of at least I can save not purchasing Sony ECM-XYST1 mike. ;)
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Old April 17th, 2014, 04:14 PM   #20
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Re: When will come out a 4K Canon or Panasonic handycam?

You can get a cheap adapter for that proprietary hotshoe and just keep the lid open all the time, problem solved. If getting good sound is a main concern for you you might consider using a external audio device? Or buy a camera that has professional audio features, you can't expect to get that in a small handicam like this.
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Old April 17th, 2014, 08:04 PM   #21
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Re: When will come out a 4K Canon or Panasonic handycam?

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Originally Posted by Adriano Moroni View Post
All your reply are very useful but now what I like to know is how much better are the sounds with Sony ECM-XYST1M than the onboard AX100 mike.
My experience is this:

AX100 built in mics are very good.

The Sony ECM-XYST1M mic is even better.

There are two ways to use the Sony ECM-XYST1M:

1.) Slide the mic into the camera hot shoe and use with a locked automatic AGC level control.

2.) Plug in the supplied mic cable into the mic and the AX100 audio in. The camera auto detects that you are now using the plug and bypasses the hot shoe audio connection. Full manual control is now enabled and you are free to do whatever you want. You are free to use any Rode mic this way too.

This is the best and cleanest sounding Handycam I have ever used.

Easy!!
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Old April 18th, 2014, 05:10 AM   #22
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Re: When will come out a 4K Canon or Panasonic handycam?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff Totten View Post
2.) Plug in the supplied mic cable into the mic and the AX100 audio in. The camera auto detects that you are now using the plug and bypasses the hot shoe audio connection. Full manual control is now enabled and you are free to do whatever you want. You are free to use any Rode mic this way too.
On the camcorder forums we always talk about video specs but very little about audio specs.
I think audio is a very important to make a good film and for this reason I ask many questions.
If I will buy Rode stereo videomic mike and plug it in AX100 by a 3,5mm jack, will I get full manual audio control?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliff Totten View Post
This is the best and cleanest sounding Handycam I have ever used.
Therefore do you not use any additional mike on AX100?
If you had to buy a new mike, would you buy a Sony ECM-XYST1M or Rode stereo videomic?

Thanks ... and I hope it is the last question about audio. ;)
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Old April 18th, 2014, 12:11 PM   #23
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Re: When will come out a 4K Canon or Panasonic handycam?

"If I will buy Rode stereo videomic mike and plug it in AX100 by a 3,5mm jack, will I get full manual audio control?"

Answer = Yes, full manual control.


I have never used the Rode stereo mic so I cant speak to that mic. I have the Rode small single shotgun video mic and that works very well on the AX100.

The mics inside the AX100 are great. I think they are as good as anybody could possibly make for internal mics. When recording "auto", the internal mic levels are recorded pretty hot and the camera relies on a peak limiter to stop clipping with such hot levels. Taking the camera off auto level and into manual allows you to bring them down below the limiter threshold and avoid it.

The Sony ECM-XYST1M is also very good too. It's not as "focused" as the Rode mini shotgun video mic. However the Sony ECM-XYST1M is very "crisp" and captures the higher frequencies better. It also has an adjustable stereo field. You can point left and right out wide or in narrow. It's up to you.

Does that help?
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Old April 18th, 2014, 02:21 PM   #24
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Re: When will come out a 4K Canon or Panasonic handycam?

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Originally Posted by Cliff Totten View Post
Does that help?
Yes, sure. Thanks a lot.
Whether it is legitimate my question: why do you have two mikes?
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Old April 18th, 2014, 02:45 PM   #25
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Re: When will come out a 4K Canon or Panasonic handycam?

The Rode Video Mic is a couple of years old. The new Sony ECM-XYST1M is just a stereo mic I thought would be nice to have.

If you get an AX100 I believe that you will be very happy with it. Nobody was more skeptical than me about it before I bought it. Today, I'm super happy with it.

Sony did this little Handycam right this time.

CT
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Old April 18th, 2014, 04:42 PM   #26
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Re: When will come out a 4K Canon or Panasonic handycam?

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Originally Posted by Cliff Totten View Post
If you get an AX100 I believe that you will be very happy with it. Nobody was more skeptical than me about it before I bought it. Today, I'm super happy with it.
Ok. What I don't like is the very high location of connection of the cable (Mic Out). Then, why does it not have a shock absorber like many other mikes? If an user is not careful, could this microphone record the rubbing noise of the hands?
Rode Stereo Videomic seems more well done but who knows if it's as good as Sony mike?
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