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Old April 16th, 2014, 07:21 AM   #1
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When will come out a 4K Canon or Panasonic handycam?

Hello, I'd like to know when a 4K Canon or Panasonic handycam will come out.
I'm disappointed by Sony AX100 and I'm waiting for a new handycam entry.
Are there some news?
Thanks
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Old April 16th, 2014, 08:54 AM   #2
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Re: When will come out a 4K Canon or Panasonic handycam?

With all of the questions you asked about the AX100 and now you're apparently disappointed with the responses you got, it's not likely you'll be happy with a Panasonic or Canon small 4K camcorder. They're also not likely to be much cheaper, if at all, if that's another concern.

If price is not an issue, I would suggest either you get a camera like the GH4 or some larger 4K camera that will meet all your needs. If not, stick with HD.
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Old April 16th, 2014, 02:13 PM   #3
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Re: When will come out a 4K Canon or Panasonic handycam?

Disappointed HOW exactly?? Have you actually got hands on one and have specifics? Or too much reading of "internet trolling"...

Sony has been cutting new trails in the cameras they are releasing, particularly with the 1" class sensor, I don't see Canon and Panny running to play catch up, but I'm sure there will be PLENTY of 4K cameras announced over the next year, from lots of "players". There will be plenty of "choices", not one of them likely to be "perfect" or "check all the boxes" for EVERY user.

In the end, it's about finding a camera that meets YOUR needs/expectations, not someone else's... While there are some who seem to hate the AX100, there are plenty of others finding it to be a great little camera. They are likely BOTH "right", some in their own "special" way!

You can wait FOREVER, or get a camera and shoot with it, warts and all... you get a lot more "joy" out of having something to shoot with than you do out of nitpicking "features and specs" ad nauseam!
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Old April 16th, 2014, 03:02 PM   #4
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Re: When will come out a 4K Canon or Panasonic handycam?

I also wonder what is not good with the ax100, especially if you are looking for a small handicam type of camera, the only thing that might be an issue depending on whet you shoot is the rolling shutter but beside that this camera has a lot to offer. And before someone jumps in saying what is not so good about it, remember that it is a small handicam so you can't expect professional features like build in xlr or 3 ring control on the lens, if you want good controll buy a eng styled camera like the Sony PMW-200.

Also don't expect the other manufacturers to come up with some wonder 4k mini handicams that does it all, they will have limitations one way or the other.
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Old April 16th, 2014, 03:59 PM   #5
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Re: When will come out a 4K Canon or Panasonic handycam?

I honestly believe that Dave is on the mark. I think these internet Trolls scare some people off. They try to scare people off with 'artifact' stories that make some believe you can't even see a picture through the picture hash. I firmly believe they have their own motivations and it's really a pity. It so lowers the S/N ratio on sites like this.

The guys who you know are the Trolls are easy to identify. They don't have the camera, have no intent to get the camera or have the camera on loan and are on a mission to find something wrong with it. There's no reason for guys like this to continue to frequent AX100 threads, but they do. That alone tells you all you need to know.
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Old April 16th, 2014, 04:10 PM   #6
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Re: When will come out a 4K Canon or Panasonic handycam?

Beside than professional features, what I more hate of Sony AX100 is the hot proprietary shoe and the lid on it. In some hours I will involuntarily broke that lid. May be you can smile but for my works it is bad.
At last I will buy the AX100 because I have no choice and may be I will like it. As soon as posible I need it. I'm waiting for a AX100E. Do you know if there are some options more?
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Old April 16th, 2014, 04:53 PM   #7
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Re: When will come out a 4K Canon or Panasonic handycam?

I've had Sonys with both hinges and the (admittedly cheezy) plastic "doors" - haven't broken one yet, but there's always a first time. I've seen people just hack the doors off, since for their uses, they use the shoe all the time and don't want to bother with the door...

About the "proprietary shoe" - what is different (aside from the new MiS format) from earlier Sonys with the AiS?? You can get an adapter, or likely make/modify an acceptable solution if all you need is a cold "dumb" shoe! Even better, mount a flash bracket with a couple cold dumb shoes if you need them... this is not rocket science.

I know Adriano at one point referred to a nearly hilarious series of exchanges on "the River" where someone got the camera and decided it was a worthless brick (or something pretty close to that phrase)... Clearly there must be SOME people who expect to do jumping jacks while filming (perhaps while swinging wildly from side to side?), and get usable results. The NX30 video promo IIRC actually featured a perky lass doing that sort of thing, to show how good the BOSS system was... but still, you can't expect EVERY camera to offer such a feature, especially when considering the engineering constraints...

There ARE solutions to "problems" - I use lanyards on my CX/PJ cameras - there's a loop on the handstrap that works perfectly to make for a "neckstrap" (lanyard) solution - don't know if the AX has the same loop, but I'd expect it does, or the handstrap itself is no doubt stout enough, even if the AX100 is heavier than the CX/PJ series...


If one looks for problems, they will FIND them, I prefer my glass half full (don't ignore the issues, but they should NOT be the focus when there are overwhelming positives...). I have no problem pointing out places where improvements would be good, or places where design decisions don't make good sense (at least not as good as I'm sure they did to the engineers who made those decisions). Unless its a "deal killer", I just work around it...

Realistically, the series of cameras Sony is putting out with the new 1" class sensor are changing the way a lot of people shoot, and think about shooting, both stills and video, these cameras are good in auto, but make manual a breeze too, and simply make it FUN to shoot again, rather than stressing. If that's not for you, well, OK then... plenty of other choices out there, they all have "issues" too, but that's just life!
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Old April 16th, 2014, 11:22 PM   #8
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Re: When will come out a 4K Canon or Panasonic handycam?

It's a $2,000 4K Handicam, guys. What do you expect? In the end, it's still a consumer cam, albeit a darn good one.
I'd say it delivers a lot for the price. I don't know if I prefer it over the GH4, but probably so. I never have gotten used to shooting video on DSLRs.

As far as the other camera makes - buy what you need now. If the other guys don't offer a similar camera and you need one now, the choice is pretty obvious.
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Old April 17th, 2014, 03:59 AM   #9
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Re: When will come out a 4K Canon or Panasonic handycam?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Blackhurst View Post
About the "proprietary shoe" - what is different (aside from the new MiS format) from earlier Sonys with the AiS?? You can get an adapter, or likely make/modify an acceptable solution if all you need is a cold "dumb" shoe! Even better, mount a flash bracket with a couple cold dumb shoes if you need them... this is not rocket science.
I have to think it over before making up my choice. As soon as possible I will have to buy an AX100E and immadiattely I will have to depart for the rainforest. Therefore I cannot think after but before AX100 will come out (I hope in some days). Someone of you think that I am a troll, nothing more wrong. When I will get my camera I will not time to think.
Before coming out AX100 I will have to buy a microphone and other accessories. For this reason I'm asking so many questions because I'm afraid to be wrong.

Cliff Totten tells that AX100 the audio pre-amps are PRISTINE and VERY "beachtech XLR friendly".
What does he mean precisely with "beachtech XLR friendly"? I'm buying a mic for AX100 (Sony ECM-XYST1) but I still don't know how much the integrated mic works fine. Will Sony ECM-XYST1 be very better than integrated microphone?

For example if I will buy the additional mic I will need also to use it constantly ..... and when will I have to use also a light (both together)? I have to buy a flash bracket too with a couple cold dumb shoes. But what flash bracket is better for AX100? You have your AX100 in your hand and I hope you can suggest a precise and light flash bracket.

Thanks for your suggestions.
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Old April 17th, 2014, 04:47 AM   #10
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Sony Hotshoe ECM-XYST1M Stereo Mike

I've had a Sony ECM-XYST1M hotshoe stereo mike for 3 weeks now, on a video-shooting photo camera. I'm pleased with how well it picks up distant sound. Not as well as big shotgun mikes, but for a short and fairly inexpensive stereo model, that is lightweight, it does very good. The furry windscreen that comes with it blocks most of the wind noise. Even if you have some larger and more expensive mikes, it gives you a good alternative, when you want to have as low a profile with your camera, as possible. It's intended to go on a Sony Multi-Interface Shoe, but it has a mic out jack and a supplied stereo phone cord, to make it usable with some other cameras and camcorders.
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Old April 17th, 2014, 06:45 AM   #11
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Re: When will come out a 4K Canon or Panasonic handycam?

Many people leave the AGC engaged and don't realize they can get better, more natural sound, by using the AX100's manual audio levels.

The onboard mike is actually pretty good, perhaps not as good as the onboard audio I had with the NEXVG30, but still quite good.
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Old April 17th, 2014, 07:18 AM   #12
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Re: When will come out a 4K Canon or Panasonic handycam?

All your reply are very useful but now what I like to know is how much better are the sounds with Sony ECM-XYST1M than the onboard AX100 mike.
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Old April 17th, 2014, 08:10 AM   #13
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Re: When will come out a 4K Canon or Panasonic handycam?

Large companies have a more expensive line-up of cameras to worry about. Why is it that we have DSLR's with features that ENG cameras do not have, and we have to rig those same DSLR's with a slew of accessories to make them act like real cameras. It is because they like to milk the market as much as they can. Who would buy a 2/3 ENG camera or a super35 shoulder mount camera if there was a cost effective option sub 10k? The only options under 10k are 1/3, 1/2 chip cameras. Of course there are 4k offerings sub 10k, but really those cameras are more hype than anything else. There are no 4k cameras that are fully featured in that price, unless it's from a third party camera and not a popular manufacturer. The game has been going on for years. They're always up-selling us to spend more and that's the way it will always be.
Thankfully, we have these new companies innovating products we really want and eventually that should force the mainstream companies to put better products out there.

P.S. There are 4k "handy-cam" cameras out there, but those target the "home video" enthusiasts not professionals.
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Old April 17th, 2014, 08:27 AM   #14
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Re: When will come out a 4K Canon or Panasonic handycam?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adriano Moroni View Post
All your reply are very useful but now what I like to know is how much better are the sounds with Sony ECM-XYST1M than the onboard AX100 mike.
From experience I know the build in mikes on this sony handycam will be very good for recording ambient sound, the ECM-XYST1M will give you a bit more possibilities as the mikes can be pointed in- or outwards, more important is that you can supply a deadcat to suppress windnoise so in windy conditions the ECM-XYST1M will be a better choice.

What more is it that you don't like about the ax100 if I may ask?
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Old April 17th, 2014, 09:25 AM   #15
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Re: When will come out a 4K Canon or Panasonic handycam?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adriano Moroni View Post
All your reply are very useful but now what I like to know is how much better are the sounds with Sony ECM-XYST1M than the onboard AX100 mike.
Here is a tip, a very important one, from the AX100E manual (which you should read rather than only ask us to read it for you):

"When you are using a dedicated microphone that is connected with the Multi interface shoe,
the recording level setting will be invalid, and you will not be able to adjust the recording
level."

If you care about audio, you do not want to use AGC. If you use this ECM-XYST1M by just attaching it by the shoe, you will get lousy pumped up sound.

The mic does have mic output, but it is not clear you can defeat the agc when you use a cord to the normal mic input and the mic is still attached to the Multi i shoe.

I would advise not getting this mic. It is a really awkward design, and has this big flaw.

Get a cheap dumb adaptor for the Sony proprietary shoe, and choose a mic based on its quality, and attach it to the right mic input. Or get a cheap bracket attached by the tripod screw for pete's sake and just attach any mic to it.
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