Projector, video and lighting idea? at DVinfo.net

Steven Davis · January 5th, 2015, 09:33 PM

Ok, so here's my thought. I recently built a 600sq foot studio. So my crazy idea is to film my actor while having the video projected on the back wall. I'm assuming it would take same mad keying to get the video square on the wall. Now the question that is spinning in my head is if I can properly light my actor without blowing the back video wall out. I may be having a Pixar moment in my brain, dreaming a little big.

Edward Carlson · January 5th, 2015, 11:33 PM

If your projector is bright enough and you control your spill, you can get this to work.

I don't understand what you mean by "keying" your video to get is square. Maybe keystoning? I would look at getting a large venue projector, at least 5k lumens. Most of these have lens shift, so the PJ doesn't have to be perfectly lined up. Digital keystoning will degrade the image quality since it's performing a digital transformation.

Getting your actor off of the wall will help keep the light spill from washing out the projector. If you have enough ceiling height, you can use show cards or duve to make a short curtain to hang on the ceiling between the wall and the lights, making a topper to kill spill from up high. I can draw a picture if I'm not explaining it well. You'll probably need lots of flags and blackwrap to control your lights. any amount of light will start to wash out your projection.

Jay Massengill · January 6th, 2015, 06:29 AM

Even some small projectors now have a mechanical side-to-side keystone adjustment allowing the projector to be offset to the left or right from the projection surface. You would need to search for that feature, and I'll try to get the model number of a co-worker's projector that has that.

Or you could ceiling-mount a short-throw projector, or rear-project with a short-throw projector but that would eat up a lot of your space and require a specialized screen.

Steven Davis · January 6th, 2015, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Massengill

Even some small projectors now have a mechanical side-to-side keystone adjustment allowing the projector to be offset to the left or right from the projection surface. You would need to search for that feature, and I'll try to get the model number of a co-worker's projector that has that.

Or you could ceiling-mount a short-throw projector, or rear-project with a short-throw projector but that would eat up a lot of your space and require a specialized screen.

Yeah, my studio is only 24x26 so I was thinking of shooting the projector from the top. The vision I have is like a single musician video. The musician is playing lets say a guitar, and I run scenes on the wall behind them. And yeah, I need more directional lighting. I have video lights, three softboxes, but nothing that really directs. That's my next goal.

Thanks for the response. I love creating stuff.

Seth Bloombaum · January 6th, 2015, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jay Massengill

...or rear-project with a short-throw projector but that would eat up a lot of your space and require a specialized screen.

Rear projection is good for this, if you can balance intensities, because light that bleeds in from the front lighting will tend to be transmitted to the rear, rather than reflected. Here's where the exact specs of the RP material's transmittance becomes more important than is typical in projection.

26' is *not* your friend for any of the front or rear approaches, since physical separation between background and subject lighting is so important for front projection, and depth behind the screen is needed for rear projection.

If it were me, I'd look at just how wide a projector lens I could get, and see if I can spare the space for RP.

Oh, and... there are some FP surfaces that are highly directional in gain. These are the silver lenticular surfaces, and maybe gray glass beaded, though I've not kept up with latest tech. Directional gain means that spill light arriving at an angle will tend to remain coherent and reflect off at a similar opposite angle, but on-axis sources will be reflected back. Words fail me here, I could draw some simple diagrams if needed.

But it's all a matter of tendencies, not absolutes. Lots of tweakage needed in these kinds of projects...

Donald McPherson · January 6th, 2015, 01:57 PM

Would it not be easier to green screen the wall?

Steven Davis · January 6th, 2015, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donald McPherson

Would it not be easier to green screen the wall?

That's my other thought.

Jay Massengill · January 6th, 2015, 06:57 PM

If you did try rear-projection (sorry if this is obvious), but with the projector placed in the corner of the studio on either a small-footprint stand or a corner shelf, with the camera shooting from the opposite corner of the studio, you can get the most separation possible and the best use of your space.

Remember the diagonal measure of your 24x26 studio is just over 35 feet.

Brian Berg · January 7th, 2015, 11:20 AM

Use a media server. Look at my website. www.sublime-lighting.com

Look at the footage on this video. It was shot while projecting with a 10k Sanyo projector. I just wish I could have gotten the projector higher to remove the shadows of the band members. I cross lit the band with some PAR56's so the beams didn't overcast on the white wall.

Steven Davis · January 7th, 2015, 01:08 PM

Hey bro, thanks for posting that. I liked the video. I'm sure I'm in for some trial and error. I'm going to order some sound curtains, so that's my next step to making this a video/production space. Thanks for the input.

Brian Berg · January 8th, 2015, 08:20 AM

Steven, I used the AXON server which has all kinds of image control. (The VPU Plus I have does also) It makes fitting into just about any shape you need doable. I believe the VPU can pixel-map to fit the image onto complex 3/D surfaces although I've never had the need to do it. If you go to the 1:16 mark of this video you can see the alignment bars I was using. The 2:18 mark has some stock footage that wound up not being used in the video that looks cool.

Steven Davis · January 8th, 2015, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Berg

Steven, I used the AXON server which has all kinds of image control. (The VPU Plus I have does also) It makes fitting into just about any shape you need doable. I believe the VPU can pixel-map to fit the image onto complex 3/D surfaces although I've never had the need to do it. If you go to the 1:16 mark of this video you can see the alignment bars I was using. The 2:18 mark has some stock footage that wound up not being used in the video that looks cool.
Reverence - The band talks about making the Music Videos - YouTube

Good stuff. I'll do some research on the Axon server. I thought you had like a large green screen. Nice work on the video.

Steven Davis · January 8th, 2015, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Berg

Steven, I used the AXON server which has all kinds of image control. (The VPU Plus I have does also) It makes fitting into just about any shape you need doable. I believe the VPU can pixel-map to fit the image onto complex 3/D surfaces although I've never had the need to do it. If you go to the 1:16 mark of this video you can see the alignment bars I was using. The 2:18 mark has some stock footage that wound up not being used in the video that looks cool.
Reverence - The band talks about making the Music Videos - YouTube

Hey Brian, is that a Christian band?

Brian Berg · January 8th, 2015, 10:10 AM

No they're not, although the singer is. He also sings for another band called Riot V.

Steven Davis · January 8th, 2015, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Berg

Steven, I used the AXON server which has all kinds of image control. (The VPU Plus I have does also) It makes fitting into just about any shape you need doable. I believe the VPU can pixel-map to fit the image onto complex 3/D surfaces although I've never had the need to do it. If you go to the 1:16 mark of this video you can see the alignment bars I was using. The 2:18 mark has some stock footage that wound up not being used in the video that looks cool.
Reverence - The band talks about making the Music Videos - YouTube

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Berg

No they're not, although the singer is. He also sings for another band called Riot V.
Riot V - Johnny's Back (Live - Bang Your Head festival, 11.07.2014) - YouTube

That's cool. I'm a very big Christian Rock/Metal head, going all the way back to Scarlet Red and Leviticus from way back. Thanks for sharing.

January 5th, 2015, 09:33 PM	#1
Steven Davis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 3,065	Projector, video and lighting idea? Ok, so here's my thought. I recently built a 600sq foot studio. So my crazy idea is to film my actor while having the video projected on the back wall. I'm assuming it would take same mad keying to get the video square on the wall. Now the question that is spinning in my head is if I can properly light my actor without blowing the back video wall out. I may be having a Pixar moment in my brain, dreaming a little big. __________________ What happens if I push the 'Red' button?

January 5th, 2015, 11:33 PM	#2
Edward Carlson Major Player Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: North Hollywood, CA, United States Posts: 807	Re: Projector, video and lighting idea? If your projector is bright enough and you control your spill, you can get this to work. I don't understand what you mean by "keying" your video to get is square. Maybe keystoning? I would look at getting a large venue projector, at least 5k lumens. Most of these have lens shift, so the PJ doesn't have to be perfectly lined up. Digital keystoning will degrade the image quality since it's performing a digital transformation. Getting your actor off of the wall will help keep the light spill from washing out the projector. If you have enough ceiling height, you can use show cards or duve to make a short curtain to hang on the ceiling between the wall and the lights, making a topper to kill spill from up high. I can draw a picture if I'm not explaining it well. You'll probably need lots of flags and blackwrap to control your lights. any amount of light will start to wash out your projection.

January 6th, 2015, 06:29 AM	#3
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	Re: Projector, video and lighting idea? Even some small projectors now have a mechanical side-to-side keystone adjustment allowing the projector to be offset to the left or right from the projection surface. You would need to search for that feature, and I'll try to get the model number of a co-worker's projector that has that. Or you could ceiling-mount a short-throw projector, or rear-project with a short-throw projector but that would eat up a lot of your space and require a specialized screen.

January 6th, 2015, 01:57 PM	#6
Donald McPherson Major Player Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Aberdeen Scotland Posts: 815	Re: Projector, video and lighting idea? Would it not be easier to green screen the wall?

January 6th, 2015, 06:57 PM	#8
Jay Massengill Trustee Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Burlington Posts: 1,976	Re: Projector, video and lighting idea? If you did try rear-projection (sorry if this is obvious), but with the projector placed in the corner of the studio on either a small-footprint stand or a corner shelf, with the camera shooting from the opposite corner of the studio, you can get the most separation possible and the best use of your space. Remember the diagonal measure of your 24x26 studio is just over 35 feet.

January 7th, 2015, 11:20 AM	#9
Brian Berg Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Clare Michigan Posts: 71	Re: Projector, video and lighting idea? Use a media server. Look at my website. www.sublime-lighting.com Look at the footage on this video. It was shot while projecting with a 10k Sanyo projector. I just wish I could have gotten the projector higher to remove the shadows of the band members. I cross lit the band with some PAR56's so the beams didn't overcast on the white wall. Reverence - After the Leaves Have Fallen (Official Music Video) - YouTube __________________ John 14-6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

January 7th, 2015, 01:08 PM	#10
Steven Davis Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Richmond, VA Posts: 3,065	Re: Projector, video and lighting idea? Hey bro, thanks for posting that. I liked the video. I'm sure I'm in for some trial and error. I'm going to order some sound curtains, so that's my next step to making this a video/production space. Thanks for the input. __________________ What happens if I push the 'Red' button?

January 8th, 2015, 08:20 AM	#11
Brian Berg Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Clare Michigan Posts: 71	Re: Projector, video and lighting idea? Steven, I used the AXON server which has all kinds of image control. (The VPU Plus I have does also) It makes fitting into just about any shape you need doable. I believe the VPU can pixel-map to fit the image onto complex 3/D surfaces although I've never had the need to do it. If you go to the 1:16 mark of this video you can see the alignment bars I was using. The 2:18 mark has some stock footage that wound up not being used in the video that looks cool. Reverence - The band talks about making the Music Videos - YouTube __________________ John 14-6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

January 8th, 2015, 10:10 AM	#14
Brian Berg Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Clare Michigan Posts: 71	Re: Projector, video and lighting idea? No they're not, although the singer is. He also sings for another band called Riot V. Riot V - Johnny's Back (Live - Bang Your Head festival, 11.07.2014) - YouTube __________________ John 14-6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.