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Old September 1st, 2016, 05:44 AM   #1
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How to view 4K home videos on tv?

Hi,

I am new to this forum and to 4K video editing and production.

I have just purchased a JVC HM 170 E 4 K camcorder and have edited on Magic Movie Edit Pro 2016 Premium. Delighted with the camera and the ease of editing in Magix.

I have previously been burning blu ray disks of home videos (not 4k, only 1080p) with chapters for playback on a blu ray player.

However, can anyone advise of the best way to view the completed 4K videos?

My thoughts are that there is no point in burning to Blu Ray as that will reduce the quality from 4K to 1080p, although I would have a means of easy playback and see some improvement in quality.

I had thought about putting the completed video to hard drive for direct input through the USB ports to the TV, but am not sure how I would do that, as I would like to retain chapters etc. How could I burn to disk whilst retaining chapters and menus?

In short, has anyone any experience of viewing edited 4K videos on TV, complete with chapters and menus etc and if so, how is this best achieved please.

Many thanks in advance for any help or ideas.

Ray
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Old September 1st, 2016, 10:10 AM   #2
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Re: How to view 4K home videos on tv?

Many TVs can show images and videos from a USB stick. In general, they just show the files, you choose the one you want, and it plays. Some handle the file structure. Others are limited to the root directory.

Check the TV's manual to see what memory devices and codecs are supported.

Note that CTA specified an HEVC decoder for Connected UHD TVs. That said, the decoder might be used for streaming apps, but not necessarily from USB. Once again, check the manual.

https://www.cta.tech/News/Press-Rele...h-Definit.aspx
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Old September 1st, 2016, 11:16 AM   #3
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Re: How to view 4K home videos on tv?

Hi Ray and welcome to the forum :-)

As Jon said you should be able to put your edited files down to usb drive, but you will have to check the spec of your tv to see if it can read the file fast enough over usb to play 4k video and indeed whether it will read your file format. I would think that the tv would struggle if the usb ports are usb2 only.

On a side note, I'm delighted to find someone else who is using Magix for editing, I seem to be in a minority. I use ProX7 and have regularly upgraded from earlier versions over several years. I much prefer Magix to other NLEs that I have used. My Panasonic FZ1000s film in 4k and I have used Magix for editing that, but I usually render down to 1080 mp4 for viewing. The footage definitely has an edge when shot in 4k, even after rendering to 1080,

I think you will struggle to find any way of using chapters in 4k at the moment, the recording technology seems to have outstripped the playback technology for consumer use.Many tvs though will play files consecutively if you put them all in one folder. I break my productions down into chapter length files for consecutive play, numbering them 001, 002 etc.

Roger
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Old September 1st, 2016, 11:36 PM   #4
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Re: How to view 4K home videos on tv?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Fairhurst View Post
Many TVs can show images and videos from a USB stick. In general, they just show the files, you choose the one you want, and it plays. Some handle the file structure. Others are limited to the root directory.

Check the TV's manual to see what memory devices and codecs are supported.

Note that CTA specified an HEVC decoder for Connected UHD TVs. That said, the decoder might be used for streaming apps, but not necessarily from USB. Once again, check the manual.

https://www.cta.tech/News/Press-Rele...h-Definit.aspx
Hi Jon...

Many thanks for your reply...

I have previously used a USB without problem but will check re the root directory etc.

It therefore seems the best way is to put to a hard drive and see if the TV will also recognise that....it if does, that would be excellent.

Will also check specs on my Samsung 6800 TV...

Thanks

Ray
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Old September 1st, 2016, 11:43 PM   #5
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Re: How to view 4K home videos on tv?

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Originally Posted by Roger Gunkel View Post
Hi Ray and welcome to the forum :-)

As Jon said you should be able to put your edited files down to usb drive, but you will have to check the spec of your tv to see if it can read the file fast enough over usb to play 4k video and indeed whether it will read your file format. I would think that the tv would struggle if the usb ports are usb2 only.

On a side note, I'm delighted to find someone else who is using Magix for editing, I seem to be in a minority. I use ProX7 and have regularly upgraded from earlier versions over several years. I much prefer Magix to other NLEs that I have used. My Panasonic FZ1000s film in 4k and I have used Magix for editing that, but I usually render down to 1080 mp4 for viewing. The footage definitely has an edge when shot in 4k, even after rendering to 1080,

I think you will struggle to find any way of using chapters in 4k at the moment, the recording technology seems to have outstripped the playback technology for consumer use.Many tvs though will play files consecutively if you put them all in one folder. I break my productions down into chapter length files for consecutive play, numbering them 001, 002 etc.

Roger
Hi Roger,

I will have to check to specs on the TV (Samsung 6800)

It does seem to me that playback of 4k has not caught up to recording and the only way I have achieved chapters and menus has been through Blu Ray disk.

I think that for the moment, getting 4k with menus and chapters is going to be a no go...very sad.

I have also tried a few video editors but come back to Magix...probably very under-rated...

I have Pro X on my PC but have always used the more basic versions which have done what I have needed BUT must have another look and see what I am missing.

Would love to use Premiere BUT suspect the learning curve may just take the fun out of editing...

I really just want to priomarily take videos of my daughter horseriding and showjumping etc....that is my real interest along with photographs etc./

I tried the FZ1000 and got a factory refurbished unit from Panasonic...it had a fault on it and had to go back...

It seemed great though apart from that..easy to hold and operate etc....although I come from and use Nikon Full frames...

Anyway, just set Magix to burn out at 1080p and going to save the video to hard drive as 4k as well.

Best wishes

Ray
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Old September 2nd, 2016, 12:12 AM   #6
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Re: How to view 4K home videos on tv?

I can play 4K on my 4K monitor and UHD TV via HDMI connection from my iMac which will output a 4K/UHD signal.

As my iMac is on my desk and the telly is in the sitting room I have only tried connection to telly once as a lot of lifting, moving, sorting out cables and the like.


My 2013 MBP Retina which of course portable only outputs a 1080p signal. I intend updating in due course to a more modern MBP which will output 4K/UHD.

In a nutshell, I need (a) a computer that outputs 4K via HDMI and (b) a TV that accepts 4K input via HDMI.


Ron
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Old September 2nd, 2016, 03:33 AM   #7
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Re: How to view 4K home videos on tv?

Hi Ray,

My business ia wedding video and photography and It does seem at the moment that there is no way to deliver 4k end product to my clients in the way that I can deliver dvds or BluRay, with menus etc. That seems like a step back to me as I can produce in far higher quality than I can deliver. Clients who have been drawn into buying 4k tvs, don"t really understand that they can't view their weddings in 4k and just assume that evrything they see on their new tv is 4k. I delivered a dvd to a couple recently who were really excited at how great it looked on their new 4k tv. I always now give an additional copy on usb in HD as at least they can get a better quality than dvd and hopefully it will be not long before I can do the same with UHD/4k.

I have used Adobe Premiere on and off for a few years and also have Edius which many on this forum love. However Magix is always my go to editor as it seems so much more versatile than the alternatives and more intuitive. The Pro versions add a few extras such as up to nine multi camera views, which I find very useful for stage productions where I may use 4 or 5 cameras. They are just synched up on the timeline in edit, and can be switched in real time from the on screen multiview monitor.Together with auto synching, which I use all the time for multi camera wedding shoots, I cannot see any advantages offered by alternative programmes. Different folks have different requirements, but Magix does the job for me.

Roger
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Old September 2nd, 2016, 03:44 AM   #8
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Re: How to view 4K home videos on tv?

Quote:
Clients who have been drawn into buying 4k tvs, don"t really understand that they can't view their weddings in 4k and just assume that evrything they see on their new tv is 4k.
Ignorance is bliss :) I have not had a 4K delivery request yet and I still have to explain that a blu-ray disc is higher quality then dvd and still they favor a dvd copy because they don't have a 60 euro blu-ray player. 4K tv's are down to 600euro now and I"m sure that I will be delivering dvd's for those as well in the next years. If I would get a request for a 4K delivery I would just render out a 4K mp4 file to a usb stick.
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Old September 2nd, 2016, 08:07 AM   #9
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Re: How to view 4K home videos on tv?

BBC are to show a new Attenborough " Life On Earth II " series later this year which in UHD. I don't know how they will transmit this and how I can receive it on my UHD TV.
Sky TV and BT Sport require you to buy a new decoder box for their UHD satellite transmissions.


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Old September 2nd, 2016, 08:59 AM   #10
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Re: How to view 4K home videos on tv?

Interesting.

I wonder if this can/will be done via a future, yet to be announced, iPlayer update?
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Old September 3rd, 2016, 11:19 AM   #11
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Re: How to view 4K home videos on tv?

My sincere thanks to all who have kindly responded with help...it really is much appreciated....

Ron, I "think" my Samsung UE55JU6800 will play 4k through HDMI out....I have a reasonable Dell Laptop etc but am sure that although i7 and well specified, because it is a couple of years old unlikely to output 4K.

Roger, you stated, "It does seem at the moment that there is no way to deliver 4k end product to my clients in the way that I can deliver dvds or BluRay, with menus etc. That seems like a step back to me as I can produce in far higher quality than I can deliver".

Interesting to see how we can get UHD signals in future...will we, with mere aerials have to have some other box or additional aerial?

And there we have it...that IS the problem at the moment....

I think there may be a benefit (or so many say) of creating Blu Ray discs at 1080p which were created in 4K BUT...that is not really what it is about or what I would like.

I have a 4K camcorder and want to see 4k on the TV....I love seeing 4k on the TV which is streamed from Youtube and there is a big difference.

Fantastic to see you like Magix.....I am limited with my skills as I have, until now spent most of my time over the years in photoshop: I would now like to do some movies for a change etc. I have played with Magix over the years and been very happy with 1080p output and find the program good to use with few if any crashes etc...I had issues with Pinnacle Studio and Cyberlink Power Director so stuck with Magix...it does seem to be reliable and good.

Noa Put, isn't it sad that some mpeople have not moved even a little bit to enjoy the benefits of the new technology!

I think that putting the 4k video to a usb is good and I hope that in my case I can put it to a hard drive to build up my collection etc.

The biggest issue being the loss of menus and chapters.

However, I suppose that as already suggested the way round that is to create a folder and put the different clips in so that each may be selected etc.....

Andy, I wonder if an IPlayer update will work (I assume you mean receiving UHDTV)....

Just to reiterate, massive thanks to all for their kind words and help...massively appreciated from very much a newbie here and to the fun of video editing.

Best wishes

Ray

Last edited by Ray Guselli; September 3rd, 2016 at 11:42 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old September 3rd, 2016, 11:54 AM   #12
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Re: How to view 4K home videos on tv?

Quote:
The biggest issue being the loss of menus and chapters.
Not sure if this supports 4K playback but you might ask Taky if that is the case, the usb stick he sells has a dvdmenu like system build in: TB HDMI Player for TakyBox TV Playback with Remote Control | L.A. Color Pros
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Old September 3rd, 2016, 12:49 PM   #13
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Re: How to view 4K home videos on tv?

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Originally Posted by Noa Put View Post
Not sure if this supports 4K playback but you might ask Taky if that is the case, the usb stick he sells has a dvdmenu like system build in: TB HDMI Player for TakyBox TV Playback with Remote Control | L.A. Color Pros
It does not support 4K.
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Old September 3rd, 2016, 01:46 PM   #14
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Re: How to view 4K home videos on tv?

It's exactly the same as we had going SD to HD.

Your options from the technical viewpoint is slap it on a USB stick - it's the most interchangeable, and assuming (the tricky word) the playback device can handle the format, which most can. From the aout and out quality viewpoint, 4K means pretty much nothing. For just a few pounds you can get a functional 4K gopro lookalike. You can also buy a new Sony 1400 rather than a nice house. Both are 4K. Oddly, both look subjectively pretty good. I was at Sony's Pinewood studio office a few weeks back, looking at the 4K chain, and while the quality at the capture end is certainly there, without a cable connecting the 4K source to a mega expensive 4K destination, lots of the image quality vanishes. Compressing it to get it onto a flash card or USB drive again robs the resolution.

I think the truth, at the moment is that HD is good enough to make serious judgements on quality, and going for a 4K capable display. Sony were quite happy to make it clear that their own domestic consumer 4K displays could not show what the camera captured. Without a broadcast 4K chain development won;t be fast.

I've no idea why DVD style menus have been consigned to the junk bin. I offer my clients blu-ray. Not a single one has wanted one. All the HD stuff is file based. 4K for the moment for me is totally pointless. Maybe I'll start to shoot on it sometime? At the moment I can't really see the point.

Premiere, and the other grown up, fully featured editors take time and effort to get into - I'm not sure if I'd ever describe editing as fun though?
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Old September 3rd, 2016, 05:05 PM   #15
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Re: How to view 4K home videos on tv?

Like Paul, I've never delivered on BluRay and only ever been asked once. That one was delivered on USB as their BR player was 720p only. I'm not sure how much people actually use the menu on a wedding DVD, so supplying sequential files on USB is probably a good compromise and a lot more flexible than a disc for playback options.

Roger
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