Cell Phone Video: Threat to Real Camcorders/Cameras?

Mark Watson · April 29th, 2017, 04:14 AM

I never shot any video with a smart phone, but if this is something that is gaining in popularity, then there might be a business case for "someone" to develop a sort of "Masterclass" training syllabus on "Making Videos with your Cell Phone". I'm envisioning a book and series of video tutorials.

Mark

Roger Van Duyn · April 29th, 2017, 05:24 AM

Actually, a small but growing percentage of the stories showing up on the news from stations in my area are now being shot by reporters themselves (actual employees, even one news director) on smart phones. They are even blogging about doing it!

It's a natural outgrowth of putting video footage shot by the public on their phones on the air.

And the public is getting more and more used to watching cell phone video. The thought may come to them, "if it's good enough for the stations to use, why don't I use it myself?"

Plus, DYI is now big business. Stores like Home Depot don't just sell to contractors. A large portion of their business comes from Do It Yourselfers.

It's hard to compete with free. Fortunately, I've found a couple of niches with very specialized requirements where my services are a very small part of the client's overall costs.

Roger Van Duyn · April 29th, 2017, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Watson

I never shot any video with a smart phone, but if this is something that is gaining in popularity, then there might be a business case for "someone" to develop a sort of "Masterclass" training syllabus on "Making Videos with your Cell Phone". I'm envisioning a book and series of video tutorials.

Mark

There are already several YouTube channels with very large followings already largely devoted to this. Of course, they are very marketing oriented, with tips on how to market using your self produced (cell phone) videos. It's hokey, but one of them may even title a lesson "How to turn your cell phone into a SELL phone."

Noa Put · April 29th, 2017, 06:30 AM

Quote:

It's hokey, but one of them may even title a lesson "How to turn your cell phone into a SELL phone."

But isn't that directed towards vloggers or people selling footage to news organisations? known vloggers seem to be earning quite a lot of money and for them it's content that matters, not the gear that is being used so if they are vlogging while driving around with a car, then ofcourse a cell phone will do just fine, it's the same with capturing news, a phone is always in your pocket so if something happens while you pass by and if it's something significant then that is what will be shown on tv, even if it's full of noise, shaky and out of focus.

I think mainly in news and entertainment (like vlogging) smartphones can have a clear advantage but I don't see any reason to panic that it will affect what I do. Lot's of uncle bobs at weddings that shoot video with their smartphone but none of them will ever be able to deliver what I do, those that are fine with whatever their guests are shooting on their smartphone either don't care or don't have a budget, both are type of clients I never get to deal with anyway.

Dave Blackhurst · April 29th, 2017, 04:14 PM

You have to separate CONTENT from the hardware, per the thread title....

Content can be captured by many devices - and the increasing quality from a small sensor phone device can be "good enuf", plus there's the "camera you have with you" aspect. Meaning that the content is captured, albeit likely in a less that stellar quality.

SO, for the typical consumer, they have ZERO reasons to buy a nice dedicated small consumer/prosumer still or video camera - that "threat" ended in the effective DEATH of that segment of the market (this was fairly obvious when I strolled down the aisle quite some time ago, at a Fry's that HAD been the "camera" aisle, and there were a few lonely "leftovers", and tumbleweeds... cameras were no longer worth giving shelf space).

PROFESSIONAL cameras and production are a somewhat different matter, but haven't we all noticed that there aren't a whole lot of "serious" cameras being introduced... guess what happened when all the R&D went to small sensor cell modules... and effectively exited the building for all but the highest $$$$ "professional" gear?

Take a good look at the structural and financial conditions of the "big boys" in imaging... Canon, Nikon, Panasonic, Sony.... not exactly reporting huge sales growth (aside from a couple small segments). Sony and Panny have or are restructuring, Nikon cancelled an entire line of cameras before a single one was sold... Product announcements and introductions (save perhaps the GH5) are barely exciting enough to get out of bed for... <cue "I'm not dead yet" sound clip>

On the one hand, media capture has become democratized and commoditized (for better or worse), but the hardware for the "average consumer" is de facto a cell phone. There is still an "enthusiast" niche that seems to be selling, but it's not to "typical" consumers.

On the other, there is still a market for QUALITY, be it event production, corporate, or whatever. There likely will always be a market for higher end, just won't be as big, and yep, won't likely be shot on an iPhone 24 or whatever... at least not entirely....

And if anyone can say that the HARDWARE market (cameras) is going to stage a huge comeback, please contact me for this bridge, statue and beachfront land I've got, I'll make ya the deal of a lifetime!

Donald McPherson · April 30th, 2017, 01:53 AM

Mark. The first lesson should be "HOLD THE PHONE THE RIGHT WAY. HORIZONTALLY."

Noa Put · April 30th, 2017, 03:41 AM

Cell phone users are professionals, they know how to hold the phone when shooting a pepsi commercial.

Mark Watson · April 30th, 2017, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donald McPherson

Mark. The first lesson should be "HOLD THE PHONE THE RIGHT WAY. HORIZONTALLY."

And for multi-cam, they can get a pen with a video camera inside and put in their shirt pocket and wear some of those sunglasses that have a full HD video camera. Boom! OMB Multi-Cam.

Noa Put · April 30th, 2017, 10:28 AM

When you mute the sound on a cell phone, so it doesn't ring when someone calls you, does that mean you can't plug in a microphone for sound recording while you are shooting video?

Andrew Smith · April 30th, 2017, 11:03 AM

These are not the cameras you are looking for. (mystical wave of hand)

Andrew

Seth Bloombaum · April 30th, 2017, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put

When you mute the sound on a cell phone, so it doesn't ring when someone calls you, does that mean you can't plug in a microphone for sound recording while you are shooting video?

Airplane mode.

Jack Walsh · May 5th, 2017, 03:06 AM

Well that's it then, all of those cameras and lenses that you've spent thousands of dollars on, are now useless junk.
You can stop your endless, time consuming quest to find video equipment to suit your needs. It's all sorted, just use your smart phone.

By the way, I will be in your area shortly with my truck to collect all that useless, outdated, obsolete and inferior video equipment...

Chris Harding · May 5th, 2017, 10:28 PM

I always wonder how much brides appreciate carefully created content that wedding editors like Noa spend hours working on or are they more interested in how they look and what they are doing ? In fact sometimes editors go to all that trouble to make the image soft romantic and dreamy when all they really need to do is shoot it on a $39.95 cell phone and it's already soft and fuzzy!

I know content is king but how fussy are viewers really ... we have a 1280x720 res Samsung TV and I cannot tell the difference between it and my mate's 1080 TV ...In fact I saw a 4K TV the other day and yes it's very sharp but somehow it doesn't look normal and I could imagine a acne inflicted bride freaking out because her 4K video shows all the defects under the makeup. I know my wife will happily watch TV programs in HD and SD and when asked about the IQ difference I get the response ...I was watching the show I didn't notice ... in fact one enterprising videographer here is offering classic wedding shoots on "genuine VHS cassettes for that vintage feel"

Even DVR dashcams ($49.95) produce amazingly crisp footage AND bear in mind they are shooting thru the windshield glass too!!!

I wonder if the professional videographer and all his gear will eventually become a dying breed and his "pro rig" will soon drop into his top pocket ? The only person that will have a huge collection of gear then will be Jack!!

Roger Gunkel · May 6th, 2017, 03:58 AM

Hi Chris,

Some interesting points that I agree with and have thought about a lot recently.

I have filmed a couple of weddings this year where the light levels have been very poor, view obstructed, and venue sound systems have broken down and I have been concerned about parts of the video not being up to my usual standard. One in particular I delivered and they watched it all the way through while I was there. The bits I felt uncomfortable with, they didn't notice at all and were only interested in the action. They were absolutely delighted and gave me a fantastic review. I also posted some photos from a very recent wedding on Facebook, on which I had spent quite a bit of extra time doing some antique and soft focus styling in photo shop, something that has been very popular with Brides. I had an email from the Bride saying that she liked the photos, but they much preferred just natural colour and everything in the background visible!

To me, that reinforces that although we try to offer something as professional and polished as possible, couples are often only interested in something simple.

Particularly with modern wedding video, I think that a lot of new people entering the business have perhaps been to university on film production degree courses and have learnt a lot of modern techniques. That coupled with big blockbuster style films and the availability of affordable camera and ancillary equipment and software, has meant that a lot of film and video makers have been able to apply cinematic style to their productions. That has given aspirations to new and existing video producers that tend to be frustrated by the lack of paid work on the film industry. The one easy access market that can give a financial return and allow the videographer to apply new skills is the wedding video industry.

That of course raises the question of are we actually giving clients what they want or what we want? Are we in fact making our own market more restricted by adding ever increasing technical quality that may look very nice, but is moving away from a more simplistic and affordable coverage. So many are used to watching phone and lower quality instant video these days, that is nothing about quality and everything about content. Maybe we are making ourselves into a luxury item that is becoming more detached from the instant fun requirements of modern couples. I'm not suggesting that we all change over to phones, but that maybe there is a call for a return to the simple one camera limited editing market of a couple of decades ago.

Roger

Chris Harding · May 6th, 2017, 08:06 AM

Hi Roger

I'm sure I have said it before but I really think that we DON'T give brides what they want as they normally have no idea what they want so we show them some samples and they say "that's great" and book you.

So in a nutshell we give them what we like and hope they will like it too. I think with weddings we have shot a huge variety over the years so we have the experience of 1000's of events under our belt and we have probably been influenced a little here and there as well as developing our own style but for the poor bride, in most cases, this is the first time for her so she is clueless, not just video and photos but basically everything as it's all new to her. A lot of the time brides accept what we feed them and if we all used mobile footage that's what they would like.

Could you get away with a mobile phone for photos?? probably you could because 90% of a good photo is composition, catching a moment etc etc not the fact that you have a DSLR with a honking great telephoto lens. (I still have no idea why these photogs have a huge Canon 400mm zoom yet they stand only feet away from the bride) In the same instance I reckon I could also get away with using a laptop and 2 x $150 web cams for a wedding ceremony instead of my usual cameras and very few people would even know. My retired mate Philip wants to film his daughter's wedding using 8 x GoPro's and I'm sure the footage would look good too.

It's not the camera ..it's the person behind the camera that counts and whether it's a Digi BetaCam or a 4K Phone , that's what will make the difference.

April 29th, 2017, 04:14 AM	#31
Mark Watson Major Player Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Whidbey Island Posts: 873	Re: Cell Phone Video: Threat to Real Camcorders/Cameras? I never shot any video with a smart phone, but if this is something that is gaining in popularity, then there might be a business case for "someone" to develop a sort of "Masterclass" training syllabus on "Making Videos with your Cell Phone". I'm envisioning a book and series of video tutorials. Mark

April 29th, 2017, 05:24 AM	#32
Roger Van Duyn Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Lakeland Florida Posts: 690	Re: Cell Phone Video: Threat to Real Camcorders/Cameras? Actually, a small but growing percentage of the stories showing up on the news from stations in my area are now being shot by reporters themselves (actual employees, even one news director) on smart phones. They are even blogging about doing it! It's a natural outgrowth of putting video footage shot by the public on their phones on the air. And the public is getting more and more used to watching cell phone video. The thought may come to them, "if it's good enough for the stations to use, why don't I use it myself?" Plus, DYI is now big business. Stores like Home Depot don't just sell to contractors. A large portion of their business comes from Do It Yourselfers. It's hard to compete with free. Fortunately, I've found a couple of niches with very specialized requirements where my services are a very small part of the client's overall costs. __________________ Roger My YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAp...2AHr_pHFID5LDA

April 29th, 2017, 04:14 PM	#35
Dave Blackhurst Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Apple Valley CA Posts: 4,874	Re: Cell Phone Video: Threat to Real Camcorders/Cameras? You have to separate CONTENT from the hardware, per the thread title.... Content can be captured by many devices - and the increasing quality from a small sensor phone device can be "good enuf", plus there's the "camera you have with you" aspect. Meaning that the content is captured, albeit likely in a less that stellar quality. SO, for the typical consumer, they have ZERO reasons to buy a nice dedicated small consumer/prosumer still or video camera - that "threat" ended in the effective DEATH of that segment of the market (this was fairly obvious when I strolled down the aisle quite some time ago, at a Fry's that HAD been the "camera" aisle, and there were a few lonely "leftovers", and tumbleweeds... cameras were no longer worth giving shelf space). PROFESSIONAL cameras and production are a somewhat different matter, but haven't we all noticed that there aren't a whole lot of "serious" cameras being introduced... guess what happened when all the R&D went to small sensor cell modules... and effectively exited the building for all but the highest $$$$ "professional" gear? Take a good look at the structural and financial conditions of the "big boys" in imaging... Canon, Nikon, Panasonic, Sony.... not exactly reporting huge sales growth (aside from a couple small segments). Sony and Panny have or are restructuring, Nikon cancelled an entire line of cameras before a single one was sold... Product announcements and introductions (save perhaps the GH5) are barely exciting enough to get out of bed for... <cue "I'm not dead yet" sound clip> On the one hand, media capture has become democratized and commoditized (for better or worse), but the hardware for the "average consumer" is de facto a cell phone. There is still an "enthusiast" niche that seems to be selling, but it's not to "typical" consumers. On the other, there is still a market for QUALITY, be it event production, corporate, or whatever. There likely will always be a market for higher end, just won't be as big, and yep, won't likely be shot on an iPhone 24 or whatever... at least not entirely.... And if anyone can say that the HARDWARE market (cameras) is going to stage a huge comeback, please contact me for this bridge, statue and beachfront land I've got, I'll make ya the deal of a lifetime!

April 30th, 2017, 01:53 AM	#36
Donald McPherson Major Player Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Aberdeen Scotland Posts: 815	Re: Cell Phone Video: Threat to Real Camcorders/Cameras? Mark. The first lesson should be "HOLD THE PHONE THE RIGHT WAY. HORIZONTALLY."

April 30th, 2017, 03:41 AM	#37
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,509	Re: Cell Phone Video: Threat to Real Camcorders/Cameras? Cell phone users are professionals, they know how to hold the phone when shooting a pepsi commercial.

April 30th, 2017, 10:28 AM	#39
Noa Put Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Belgium Posts: 9,509	Re: Cell Phone Video: Threat to Real Camcorders/Cameras? When you mute the sound on a cell phone, so it doesn't ring when someone calls you, does that mean you can't plug in a microphone for sound recording while you are shooting video?

April 30th, 2017, 11:03 AM	#40
Andrew Smith Equal Opportunity Offender Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,016	Re: Cell Phone Video: Threat to Real Camcorders/Cameras? These are not the cameras you are looking for. (mystical wave of hand) Andrew

May 5th, 2017, 03:06 AM	#42
Jack Walsh Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Valentine NSW, Australia Posts: 91	Re: Cell Phone Video: Threat to Real Camcorders/Cameras? Well that's it then, all of those cameras and lenses that you've spent thousands of dollars on, are now useless junk. You can stop your endless, time consuming quest to find video equipment to suit your needs. It's all sorted, just use your smart phone. By the way, I will be in your area shortly with my truck to collect all that useless, outdated, obsolete and inferior video equipment...

May 5th, 2017, 10:28 PM	#43
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Cell Phone Video: Threat to Real Camcorders/Cameras? I always wonder how much brides appreciate carefully created content that wedding editors like Noa spend hours working on or are they more interested in how they look and what they are doing ? In fact sometimes editors go to all that trouble to make the image soft romantic and dreamy when all they really need to do is shoot it on a $39.95 cell phone and it's already soft and fuzzy! I know content is king but how fussy are viewers really ... we have a 1280x720 res Samsung TV and I cannot tell the difference between it and my mate's 1080 TV ...In fact I saw a 4K TV the other day and yes it's very sharp but somehow it doesn't look normal and I could imagine a acne inflicted bride freaking out because her 4K video shows all the defects under the makeup. I know my wife will happily watch TV programs in HD and SD and when asked about the IQ difference I get the response ...I was watching the show I didn't notice ... in fact one enterprising videographer here is offering classic wedding shoots on "genuine VHS cassettes for that vintage feel" Even DVR dashcams ($49.95) produce amazingly crisp footage AND bear in mind they are shooting thru the windshield glass too!!! I wonder if the professional videographer and all his gear will eventually become a dying breed and his "pro rig" will soon drop into his top pocket ? The only person that will have a huge collection of gear then will be Jack!!

May 6th, 2017, 03:58 AM	#44
Roger Gunkel Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: LIncolnshire, UK Posts: 2,213	Re: Cell Phone Video: Threat to Real Camcorders/Cameras? Hi Chris, Some interesting points that I agree with and have thought about a lot recently. I have filmed a couple of weddings this year where the light levels have been very poor, view obstructed, and venue sound systems have broken down and I have been concerned about parts of the video not being up to my usual standard. One in particular I delivered and they watched it all the way through while I was there. The bits I felt uncomfortable with, they didn't notice at all and were only interested in the action. They were absolutely delighted and gave me a fantastic review. I also posted some photos from a very recent wedding on Facebook, on which I had spent quite a bit of extra time doing some antique and soft focus styling in photo shop, something that has been very popular with Brides. I had an email from the Bride saying that she liked the photos, but they much preferred just natural colour and everything in the background visible! To me, that reinforces that although we try to offer something as professional and polished as possible, couples are often only interested in something simple. Particularly with modern wedding video, I think that a lot of new people entering the business have perhaps been to university on film production degree courses and have learnt a lot of modern techniques. That coupled with big blockbuster style films and the availability of affordable camera and ancillary equipment and software, has meant that a lot of film and video makers have been able to apply cinematic style to their productions. That has given aspirations to new and existing video producers that tend to be frustrated by the lack of paid work on the film industry. The one easy access market that can give a financial return and allow the videographer to apply new skills is the wedding video industry. That of course raises the question of are we actually giving clients what they want or what we want? Are we in fact making our own market more restricted by adding ever increasing technical quality that may look very nice, but is moving away from a more simplistic and affordable coverage. So many are used to watching phone and lower quality instant video these days, that is nothing about quality and everything about content. Maybe we are making ourselves into a luxury item that is becoming more detached from the instant fun requirements of modern couples. I'm not suggesting that we all change over to phones, but that maybe there is a call for a return to the simple one camera limited editing market of a couple of decades ago. Roger

May 6th, 2017, 08:06 AM	#45
Chris Harding Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 8,441	Re: Cell Phone Video: Threat to Real Camcorders/Cameras? Hi Roger I'm sure I have said it before but I really think that we DON'T give brides what they want as they normally have no idea what they want so we show them some samples and they say "that's great" and book you. So in a nutshell we give them what we like and hope they will like it too. I think with weddings we have shot a huge variety over the years so we have the experience of 1000's of events under our belt and we have probably been influenced a little here and there as well as developing our own style but for the poor bride, in most cases, this is the first time for her so she is clueless, not just video and photos but basically everything as it's all new to her. A lot of the time brides accept what we feed them and if we all used mobile footage that's what they would like. Could you get away with a mobile phone for photos?? probably you could because 90% of a good photo is composition, catching a moment etc etc not the fact that you have a DSLR with a honking great telephoto lens. (I still have no idea why these photogs have a huge Canon 400mm zoom yet they stand only feet away from the bride) In the same instance I reckon I could also get away with using a laptop and 2 x $150 web cams for a wedding ceremony instead of my usual cameras and very few people would even know. My retired mate Philip wants to film his daughter's wedding using 8 x GoPro's and I'm sure the footage would look good too. It's not the camera ..it's the person behind the camera that counts and whether it's a Digi BetaCam or a 4K Phone , that's what will make the difference.