How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in?

Brian Drysdale · July 13th, 2019, 11:37 AM

I recall watching short films with surround sound in a stereo cinema and there always seemed to be a hole in the centre of the stereo image.

They should be compatible, but you're trying to do sale, so it sounds better if you have it available. You don't want to be explaining things. However, they'll be buying on who's in it and if they can sell it in the current market.

In technical stuff in the sale, shooting on an Alexa is easier to sell than shooting on a DSLR.

However, it's the name actor who will really attract them.

Ryan Elder · July 13th, 2019, 12:55 PM

Oh okay, can they tell easily what camera the movie was shot on?

Brian Drysdale · July 13th, 2019, 01:19 PM

It depends, you'd probably have problems telling a Ursa Mini Pro from an Alexa, but a DSLR won't have the same quality.

It depends if they are using the camera as a filter, because so many films are shot with DSLRs, it's an easy way of taking them out of the mix,

A name actor trumps that.

Ryan Elder · July 13th, 2019, 01:52 PM

Okay thanks. I assume I won't be able to get a named star or supporting character names actor for the movie, so I was trying to do what is best in other areas too...

Brian Drysdale · July 13th, 2019, 02:05 PM

An excellent original story, well acted, compelling characters and well told is what's best. Have that and you can shoot with a iPhone if it's appropriate for the stroy.

Ryan Elder · July 14th, 2019, 01:38 AM

Okay thanks, I will try direct the story and acting as best I can of course :).

As for aspect ratio, and choosing between 16:9 and 2.39:1, I suppose the types of shots, also you help you choose, right?

I wanted to do a lot of mastershots, similar to the movie High and Low, since High and Low is possibly my most favorite movie in terms of how the shots are storyboarded.

So I would like to do shots like this in the movie:

So if you want mostly mastershots, like in High and Low, which aspect ratio is better for shots like that, or do they both work for that?

Brian Drysdale · July 14th, 2019, 03:04 AM

There are a number of factors that come into consideration.

1. Where is the audience viewing your film? "High and Low" is totally aimed at a cinema release, which is different to if your film is going to be viewed by people watching a streamed video on a mobile phone.

2. The nature of the spaces in your sets. Are they primarily horizontal or vertical? If the latter, the use of a crane/jib is way to adjust vertical spaces into moving horizontal spaces for scope films. There is great use of vertical space in the best 1.33;1 feature films. Generally. horizontal spaces work better with scope, but it depends on the nature of the story.

3. How wide do you want the figures to be? For roughly the same background you can have a CU in the foreground in scope. while in say 1.85:1 it will be an MCU.

Both types will work for roughly similar blocking, just you may find you've got a MCU instead of a CU when you frame it.

Paul R Johnson · July 14th, 2019, 09:58 AM

Ryan - do you view your projects as Art or Craft? If I was making a movie like the old Lawrence of Arabia - sweeping desert vistas and lots of shots in your mind of hundreds of horseback riders appearing over a sand dune, then your image format is a no brainer - WIDE! Movies, however have been shot in multiple formats over the years and when I was young and you had the main movie, a short, and lots of adverts, each projector change would see the curtains going in and out like yo-yos!

I shoot 16:9, for TV and occasionally when it suits, I'll drop in black top and bottom when it fits the effect and feel I want. Because it looks right! No idea what format it is?

Ryan Elder · July 14th, 2019, 10:03 AM

I would say I view them as art. When you ask if I have any idea what format is, what do you mean by format in this context?

Ryan Elder · July 14th, 2019, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale

There are a number of factors that come into consideration.

1. Where is the audience viewing your film? "High and Low" is totally aimed at a cinema release, which is different to if your film is going to be viewed by people watching a streamed video on a mobile phone.

2. The nature of the spaces in your sets. Are they primarily horizontal or vertical? If the latter, the use of a crane/jib is way to adjust vertical spaces into moving horizontal spaces for scope films. There is great use of vertical space in the best 1.33;1 feature films. Generally. horizontal spaces work better with scope, but it depends on the nature of the story.

3. How wide do you want the figures to be? For roughly the same background you can have a CU in the foreground in scope. while in say 1.85:1 it will be an MCU.

Both types will work for roughly similar blocking, just you may find you've got a MCU instead of a CU when you frame it.

Okay thanks, but I thought that the composition and framing were more important than where the audience is viewing it. For example, if I want a close up of a character, where the rest are in the background like in a 2.39:1 ratio, than isn't the shots I want more important, than whether or not it's in a theater or not?

Brian Drysdale · July 14th, 2019, 10:39 AM

Knowing how the audience is viewing a film is vital. A large screen in a theatre provides more information to the viewer, than the same film viewed on a mobile phone.

On a large screen you can see more detail, you can let things build within the shot without cutting because the audience can switch their attention within the frame.

Scope films were intended for large screens, not a style statement on a small screen.

Ryan Elder · July 14th, 2019, 10:44 AM

Oh okay, but a lot of people seem to enjoy scope films on small screens, cause people still watch them on small screens, and the companies do not pan and scan them. So are people that bothered by it, and if so, why don't the companies pan and scan them then for video release, after theaters?

Brian Drysdale · July 14th, 2019, 10:58 AM

They did pan and scan in the days of 4 x 3 TV, today they they may do it partly for 16:9 or show them in a cropped 2.20:1 aspect ratio on a more commercial channels. Some channels will letter box to show the whole 2.39:1 aspect ratio..

However, you're not getting the full impact of the film on a small screen, but with the increasing size and resolution of modern TVs you can acheive a similar screen width to viewing distance in the domestic environment.

Ryan Elder · July 14th, 2019, 11:03 AM

Oh okay, I didn't think audiences cared cause they watch 2.39:1 movies all the time on smaller screens and they often look like they are in the full ratio to me.

Well chances are the movie will not be shown in theaters outside of festivals, but I was told to always aim for how it will look in theaters, just in case, and any changes for video can be made later. I mean a lot of filmmakers nowadays at festivals seem to shoot in 16:9, with a stereo soundtrack, and I think to myself that they didn't aim as high as they could have, and maybe their movie would have looked better on 2.39:1 on the festival screen, with a 5.1 mix.

Unless I'm looking at it the wrong way...

Paul R Johnson · July 14th, 2019, 11:09 AM

Formats - the things we're talking about. Frankly, 2.39:1 format is a mathematically accurate and totally meaningless screen ratio. Most TV sets and monitors have inbuilt masking and few now have controls to allow you to shrink/stretch in H and V planes to fit the visible area of the screen. I have one that annoyingly clips the very top of the image so anything placed there is invisible.

Cinamascope wasn't even a fixed ratio - 2.35 to 2.66:1
Academy at 1.375:1

and of course loads of others - designed for specific movies.

I really think that if it's art - then you produce in whatever looks best. However, as pointed out, you are really just throwing pixels away, so definition is pretty fixed, and of course you cannot determine how each TV or projector will deal with your weird shape.

Pan and scan destroys the director's intensions. It satisfies people who want the screen filled, but don't care about the art.

You are not going to find rules for this one Ryan. You're on your own. No policies or industry standards to follow, as with your usual technical questions. This one is art, so there are no wrong choices, because you could make a movie with the image a circle, if there was an artistic need for it.

July 13th, 2019, 11:37 AM	#16
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in? I recall watching short films with surround sound in a stereo cinema and there always seemed to be a hole in the centre of the stereo image. They should be compatible, but you're trying to do sale, so it sounds better if you have it available. You don't want to be explaining things. However, they'll be buying on who's in it and if they can sell it in the current market. In technical stuff in the sale, shooting on an Alexa is easier to sell than shooting on a DSLR. However, it's the name actor who will really attract them.

July 13th, 2019, 12:55 PM	#17
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in? Oh okay, can they tell easily what camera the movie was shot on?

July 13th, 2019, 01:19 PM	#18
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in? It depends, you'd probably have problems telling a Ursa Mini Pro from an Alexa, but a DSLR won't have the same quality. It depends if they are using the camera as a filter, because so many films are shot with DSLRs, it's an easy way of taking them out of the mix, A name actor trumps that.

July 13th, 2019, 01:52 PM	#19
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in? Okay thanks. I assume I won't be able to get a named star or supporting character names actor for the movie, so I was trying to do what is best in other areas too...

July 13th, 2019, 02:05 PM	#20
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in? An excellent original story, well acted, compelling characters and well told is what's best. Have that and you can shoot with a iPhone if it's appropriate for the stroy.

July 14th, 2019, 01:38 AM	#21
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in? Okay thanks, I will try direct the story and acting as best I can of course :). As for aspect ratio, and choosing between 16:9 and 2.39:1, I suppose the types of shots, also you help you choose, right? I wanted to do a lot of mastershots, similar to the movie High and Low, since High and Low is possibly my most favorite movie in terms of how the shots are storyboarded. So I would like to do shots like this in the movie: 3 Brilliant Moments of Blocking (in Kurosawa's High and Low) - YouTube So if you want mostly mastershots, like in High and Low, which aspect ratio is better for shots like that, or do they both work for that?

July 14th, 2019, 03:04 AM	#22
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in? There are a number of factors that come into consideration. 1. Where is the audience viewing your film? "High and Low" is totally aimed at a cinema release, which is different to if your film is going to be viewed by people watching a streamed video on a mobile phone. 2. The nature of the spaces in your sets. Are they primarily horizontal or vertical? If the latter, the use of a crane/jib is way to adjust vertical spaces into moving horizontal spaces for scope films. There is great use of vertical space in the best 1.33;1 feature films. Generally. horizontal spaces work better with scope, but it depends on the nature of the story. 3. How wide do you want the figures to be? For roughly the same background you can have a CU in the foreground in scope. while in say 1.85:1 it will be an MCU. Both types will work for roughly similar blocking, just you may find you've got a MCU instead of a CU when you frame it.

July 14th, 2019, 09:58 AM	#23
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,016	Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in? Ryan - do you view your projects as Art or Craft? If I was making a movie like the old Lawrence of Arabia - sweeping desert vistas and lots of shots in your mind of hundreds of horseback riders appearing over a sand dune, then your image format is a no brainer - WIDE! Movies, however have been shot in multiple formats over the years and when I was young and you had the main movie, a short, and lots of adverts, each projector change would see the curtains going in and out like yo-yos! I shoot 16:9, for TV and occasionally when it suits, I'll drop in black top and bottom when it fits the effect and feel I want. Because it looks right! No idea what format it is?

July 14th, 2019, 10:03 AM	#24
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in? I would say I view them as art. When you ask if I have any idea what format is, what do you mean by format in this context?

July 14th, 2019, 10:39 AM	#26
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in? Knowing how the audience is viewing a film is vital. A large screen in a theatre provides more information to the viewer, than the same film viewed on a mobile phone. On a large screen you can see more detail, you can let things build within the shot without cutting because the audience can switch their attention within the frame. Scope films were intended for large screens, not a style statement on a small screen.

July 14th, 2019, 10:44 AM	#27
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in? Oh okay, but a lot of people seem to enjoy scope films on small screens, cause people still watch them on small screens, and the companies do not pan and scan them. So are people that bothered by it, and if so, why don't the companies pan and scan them then for video release, after theaters?

July 14th, 2019, 10:58 AM	#28
Brian Drysdale Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Belfast, UK Posts: 6,143	Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in? They did pan and scan in the days of 4 x 3 TV, today they they may do it partly for 16:9 or show them in a cropped 2.20:1 aspect ratio on a more commercial channels. Some channels will letter box to show the whole 2.39:1 aspect ratio.. However, you're not getting the full impact of the film on a small screen, but with the increasing size and resolution of modern TVs you can acheive a similar screen width to viewing distance in the domestic environment.

July 14th, 2019, 11:03 AM	#29
Ryan Elder also known as Ryan Wray Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Saskatoon, Canada Posts: 2,880	Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in? Oh okay, I didn't think audiences cared cause they watch 2.39:1 movies all the time on smaller screens and they often look like they are in the full ratio to me. Well chances are the movie will not be shown in theaters outside of festivals, but I was told to always aim for how it will look in theaters, just in case, and any changes for video can be made later. I mean a lot of filmmakers nowadays at festivals seem to shoot in 16:9, with a stereo soundtrack, and I think to myself that they didn't aim as high as they could have, and maybe their movie would have looked better on 2.39:1 on the festival screen, with a 5.1 mix. Unless I'm looking at it the wrong way...

July 14th, 2019, 11:09 AM	#30
Paul R Johnson Inner Circle Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Lowestoft - UK Posts: 4,016	Re: How does a filmmaker decide which aspect ratio to shoot in? Formats - the things we're talking about. Frankly, 2.39:1 format is a mathematically accurate and totally meaningless screen ratio. Most TV sets and monitors have inbuilt masking and few now have controls to allow you to shrink/stretch in H and V planes to fit the visible area of the screen. I have one that annoyingly clips the very top of the image so anything placed there is invisible. Cinamascope wasn't even a fixed ratio - 2.35 to 2.66:1 Academy at 1.375:1 and of course loads of others - designed for specific movies. I really think that if it's art - then you produce in whatever looks best. However, as pointed out, you are really just throwing pixels away, so definition is pretty fixed, and of course you cannot determine how each TV or projector will deal with your weird shape. Pan and scan destroys the director's intensions. It satisfies people who want the screen filled, but don't care about the art. You are not going to find rules for this one Ryan. You're on your own. No policies or industry standards to follow, as with your usual technical questions. This one is art, so there are no wrong choices, because you could make a movie with the image a circle, if there was an artistic need for it.