Shooting Color DV for B&W (Desat in Post) at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > Open DV Discussion

Open DV Discussion
For topics which don't fit into any of the other categories.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old February 22nd, 2006, 08:06 AM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: kentucky, USA
Posts: 429
Shooting Color DV for B&W (Desat in Post)

I'm planning on shooting a B&W Noir short. I want to just shoot in color and then desaturate in post. I want as close to an 30s and 40s B&W Noir mystery thriller film look that I can get. Can anyone offer some advice. I'm shooting with a PV GS400 and will be editing with Premiere Elements. I figured this basic NLE software is about all I'd need.
Steve Witt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2006, 02:32 PM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 327
Contrast is the magic word with B&W, and especially with a noir look. Here are some general guidelines:

-Carry a reference monitor with the color turned off because it can sometimes be hard to judge what your image will look like after the desat.

-Separation is very important- whether it be with your lighting, framing, different tones of grey, or (most likely) a combination thereof.

-Remember that complementary colors of equal tint/shade will show up as the same tone of grey. (So full intensity pure red and full intensity pure green will be the same shade of grey)

-Depending on what your wardrobe requirements are, you might want to think about using colored clothing to create certain shades of grey for particular characters. (TEST this is if you do) If you look at behind-the-scenes footage from The Man Who Wasn't There, you'll see actors wearing baby-blue suits, purple ties, etc.

-TEST, TEST, TEST!!
__________________
Matt Irwin
DP / matt.irwincine.com
Matt Irwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 22nd, 2006, 04:41 PM   #3
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
Posts: 113
Great points Matt. I've noticed too that in older film noirs the depth of field is longer as with most films. So if you are shooting with video then that's not a bad thing. Funny, I just watched Sunset BLVD for the 100th or so time last night and noticed that very thing. Also be sure to bring up your blacks as well as your whites in post. You may even drop your mids a hair.

GOOD LUCK!
__________________
James out------
Check out the Southern Winds Film Festival. Call for entries is now open!



http://www.southernwindsfilmfestival.com

http://www.phigmentphilms.com
James Bridges is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 23rd, 2006, 01:53 AM   #4
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Syke, Germany
Posts: 249
Steve, all the advice given above is very good. But keep in mind that just desaturating the footage probably won't give you the effect you want. Remember that black and white film is not just desaturated color film.

I'm not familiar with Premiere Elements but if it has a channel mixer (that's what it is called in Premiere, After Effects and Photoshop) you should give it a try. It gives you full control over how the color is transformed into black and white.

Perhaps this would be interisting for you:

http://luminous-landscape.com/tutori...w_better.shtml

The article is for digital still images but it work just the same for video footage.
__________________
Keep rolling

Rainer
Rainer Hoffmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 27th, 2006, 09:20 AM   #5
New Boot
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 10
This is my adivce:
DONT SHOOT IN COLOR
SHOOT in B&W DIRECTLY.

Why?
DV compression is 4:1:1 (or 4:2:0) this means basically that the LUMA informations are sampled 4 times on 4, while colour informations are sampled 1 time on 4, what is missing is just repliacated leading to well known artifacts.
If u shoot on colour u'll have all artifacts (even if u desaturate them, they are there).
If u shoot in B&W u will not have any color artifact, the image quality and resolution will be much more great.

Alarik
Alarik Miikael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 27th, 2006, 10:03 AM   #6
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Syke, Germany
Posts: 249
Alarik,

how can you shoot in B&W directly using a DV-camcorder? And why is the resolution higher than when you shoot in color?

Did I miss something?
__________________
Keep rolling

Rainer
Rainer Hoffmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 27th, 2006, 11:57 AM   #7
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 33
Many DV cameras have a B&W setting as a special effect.
Robert Crawford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 27th, 2006, 12:14 PM   #8
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 142
Alarik, I doubt that shooting in black and white in-camera can yield more quality than doing it in post. A 4:1:1 image is still 4:1:1 even if you shoot it in black and white; you are not going to get more luma resolution, it's just that the colour difference signals will be null. AFAIK, shooting in colour and discarding the colour information in post (by simply desaturating) should yield exactly the same result as doing it in camera. Not more resolution or quality, not less.

Shooting in colour just allows you to use the colour information to balance your black and white image. Instead of simply discarding the colour information, you can use it to transform your black and white output. This is what the channel mixer will let you do.
__________________
JF Robichaud
Jean-Francois Robichaud is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 28th, 2006, 01:11 AM   #9
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Syke, Germany
Posts: 249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Crawford
Many DV cameras have a B&W setting as a special effect.
Yes, but this setting basically just desaturates the image. It's certainly not the same as loading a b&w film in your Arriflex
__________________
Keep rolling

Rainer
Rainer Hoffmann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 1st, 2006, 04:27 AM   #10
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Minnesota (USA)
Posts: 2,171
I remember the day my dad bought our first color television back in the 60s. I don't recall anyone thinking it wasn't sharp enough. Nobody wanted to turn it off, and watch the black and white instead.
Robert M Wright is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > Open DV Discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:38 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network