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Old August 9th, 2006, 08:07 PM   #1
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Preparing to shoot a music video, advice needed

Hey guys,

I'm preparing to shoot another Music Video, this time for a local band called "Black Chapel". If any of you guys are into heavy metal, give them a listen at www.myspace.com/blackchapel

No, this aint a gratuitous plug (yes it is)!

Anyway, it's going to be a two camera shoot with my Xl2 and a DVX camcorder. We're both going to shoot in 24p, but what I'd like to know is how the DVX does 24p? Is it 2:3:3:2 or 2:3? Is the DVX adjustable like the XL2 where one can choose either format?

Also, we want to do slow-mo shots, how would 30p (from the canon) mix with 24p on a 24 timeline, slowed down? What kind of problems will I encounter if I overlook certain settings and what not?

Last, but not least, what kind of general problems/concerns should I look for or address before shooting when mixing footage from a DVX and the XL2?

I feel as if I'm forgetting something.

One last thing, I wasn't sure if I should've posted this on the XL2 forum or not, but I didn't see a forum that suits this topic best but the general DV forum.

Thanks in advance!

-Roger
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Old August 9th, 2006, 09:21 PM   #2
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Both the XL2 and DVX shoot 24p standard, and 24p advanced. It sounds like you understand what they are and their implications on your post. All you need to do is make sure both are set the same.

30P slows down to 24p just fine, providing you know how to do it properly. If you're on a Mac, then a Cinema Tools "conform" from 23.98 to 29.97 is what you'll want.

The two cameras can mix and match pretty well, but to do so you'll want to spend some time with both and a good monitor. I often find that small to medium colorimetry differences often can slide by, but black level and gamma settings have to be more tuned. But that's just my opinion.

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What kind of problems will I encounter if I overlook certain settings and what not?
Unfortunately, the sky is the limit.
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Old August 10th, 2006, 01:59 PM   #3
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Thanks Nate, pretty much all my concerns have subsided.

One thing I want to address is that I am not on a mac. I will be using Vegas 6 for this job.

Quote:
30P slows down to 24p just fine, providing you know how to do it properly.
That's the thing. I've never experimented with 30p. Since I've gotten the camera I've only sot at 60i and 24p standard. I've never slowed down 30p footage on a 24p timeline mixed with 24p footage (breaths). So, I'm not exactly sure how to go about it.

I've read numerous statements on this site stating that 30p footage doesn't convert well to 24p. Fortunately for me, I'm not trying to convert to 24p, I just want to slow it down for a slo-mo effect.

I've read so many things about 30p at 24p that it sounds like a nightmare. Am I better off shooting the slow-mo shots at standard 60i?

Thanks!

-Roger
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Old August 10th, 2006, 05:37 PM   #4
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30p slowed down is not going to look very good. 60i will definately look better.
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Old August 12th, 2006, 06:17 PM   #5
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Cool, thanks Adam.
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Old August 12th, 2006, 10:51 PM   #6
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keep in mind that the xl2 shoots true wide screen (it is not cropped it actually uses more of the ccd then less) where as the DVX crops the image (you use less of the ccd, thus loosing resolution)
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Old August 13th, 2006, 07:28 PM   #7
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Louis, thanks for that important piece of info. That's what I was looking for.

-Roger
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Old August 16th, 2006, 09:53 AM   #8
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I'm pretty sure the DVX100/A/B all have an anamorphic 16:9 shooting mode, so in post you can conform the digitally squeezed DVX footage to match the true 16:9 of the XL2. You can also buy or rent a Panasonic AG-LA7200 16:9 lens adapter for the DVX. I bought mine used on eBay for $475 and have been very pleased with it. I use it with my DVC80. The biggest drawback is an occasional horizontal lens flare, which only seem to occur when shooting at night or dark stages. Sometimes it actually looks pretty cool, like in that Coldplay video whose name escapes me. A bright light has to hit the AG-LA7200 at just the right angle to cause this, so it's not a frequent problem. Using a matte box would probably help.

Good luck, and have fun!

T.J.
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Old August 16th, 2006, 10:25 AM   #9
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The DVX can fake 16:9 with squeeze mode but you lose 1/3rd of the resolution. 30p and 24p do not play well together, most software for slow-mo likes the source to be 60i.




ash =o)
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Old August 16th, 2006, 04:45 PM   #10
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I'm a bit confused as to how the DVX does it. Does it record a standard 4:3 image letterboxed?

How does the squeez mode work? The shoot is this friday and I need to know how it works so I can start planning it out for post.

If I try to match the DVX widescreen footage with the XL2, will it look stretched out?

I want to try and avoid as many catastrophes' as possible, as i've been experiencing many as of late!

-Roger
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Old August 16th, 2006, 05:18 PM   #11
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Try 60i for slo-mo

<<I'm a bit confused as to how the DVX does it. Does it record a standard 4:3 image letterboxed?>> Exactly. Cuts off the top and bottom pixels, losing some of your precious canvas...

<<If I try to match the DVX widescreen footage with the XL2, will it look stretched out?>> If you're working in a 720x480 sequence, it should work, though the XL2 images will be more information (hence detail) to start with.

Also if you haven't seen it this 60i Overcrank tutorial that has been around for a while is really cool:

http://rarevision.com/articles/slow_motion.php#

BTW, I did a video for a metal band on the DVX100 last year:

http://www.destrophy.com/assets/destrophy_pray_hi.wmv

This was with the Panasonic anamorphic adapter someone already described. In case you want to see what it looks like.

Happy filming.
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Old August 16th, 2006, 06:37 PM   #12
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Ben,

great video man. The band was energetic too! Good combo. The adaptor looks great, I'll look into renting one for the shoot. Most likely wont happen, but I definately want it.

Thanks a bunch for that tutorial. Very interesting stuff, I gotta try it tonight after work.

I figuredd the footage was letterboxed with the DVX and I've had bad experiences mixing the XL2's true 16:9 footage with letterboxed footage.

I have footage shot with the XL2 and a $300 camcorder I use as my capture deck. I mixed the letterboxed footage from the capture camcorder and when I placed it on my timeline I had black borders on the top and bottom (the letterboxing) on an ALREADY widescreen project. This made the footage look stretched with unneeded black bars on the top and bottom.

Once again, I'm really impressed with the video man, I'd like to see more of your stuff.

-Roger

EDIT: I figured out how to remove the black bars without losing any image from the sides. Stretch the video from top and bottom until bars are gone. Looks funky in timeline, but that's only because the preview monitor is 4:3 (the project is widescreen, dunno why the preview monitor doesn't display it at widescreen). Once I render it out, it looks just fun. The way it should. Not stretched or funky. A little grainy, but that's expected from a crappy cam like the one I have.
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Old August 16th, 2006, 09:10 PM   #13
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Are you using FCP Roger? If you are, make sure your Canvas settings match up with your sequence-i.e., square pixels, etc. That might change how it previews.

The grainy thing might be happening because it sounds like your distorting the DVX's letterboxed image beyond its original dimensions, in order to push those black bars off the screen. Maybe...

<<Once again, I'm really impressed with the video man, I'd like to see more of your stuff>>

Okay, if you insist:) Here's another music video I made last year on the DVX (no adapter, just letterboxed). Pretty rough but still fond of it:

http://www.newwavevideos.com/TheyReComing_HI.wmv

Have fun with the video shoot
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Old August 16th, 2006, 10:14 PM   #14
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First off, dont mess with the anamorphic lens. It creates more problems than it is worth. It is awkward to use to say the least. Why not shoot it all on the XL2? Could you rent another XL2 or HVX (for the 16:9 chips)?



ash =o)
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Old August 16th, 2006, 10:36 PM   #15
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Ben, I use Vegas 6. My project settings are set to NTSC Widescreen, but the preview monitor is still 4:3 for some reason. However, when I render my video to avi the aspect ratio is 16:9. As for the 4:3 footage I stretched out to remove the black bars, it actually looks perfect widescreen. It actually corrects the image. I'll try and post a sample of the before and after tomorrow so you guys can see. It's hard for me to explain.

Ash, the reason why I don't use the XL2 exclusively is because I wasn't the one who approached the band, but it seems as if the guy who did is really not going to be there for the shoots, plus I know the band since waaaaay back. They trust me more than the guy that approached them. I might just end up using the XL2 and taking over the whole shoot.

But yes, that is what I want to do and I'm going to speak to the band right now about this very issue.

-Roger

EDIT: Ben, I like the second video to. Didn't get a chance to comment earlier because I didn't have time to watch it. Very cool video. Well shot!

Last edited by Roger Rosales; August 17th, 2006 at 12:37 PM.
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