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Old December 9th, 2006, 01:45 PM   #1
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if i don't need good colors...

hi all,

See if i understand this right.

The reason why someone would shoot with a 3CCD camera instead of a non 3CCD camera (not considering HD at all) is because of better colours from 3 different CCD, right? right?

If the above is true, and I dun need good colours for my inde shorts, what is a DV camera you would recommend? I would need a camera to edit in FCP.

thanks
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Old December 9th, 2006, 02:02 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ong Wan Shu
hi all,

See if i understand this right.

The reason why someone would shoot with a 3CCD camera instead of a non 3CCD camera (not considering HD at all) is because of better colours from 3 different CCD, right? right?

If the above is true, and I dun need good colours for my inde shorts, what is a DV camera you would recommend? I would need a camera to edit in FCP.

thanks
For all intents and purposes the choice of editing platform and software has nothing to do with the choice of camera as long as you're talking DV on both sides. If the image quality produced by the camera isn't important to you, what is? If given two cameras to compare side by side, both of which would work with FCP, what features or characteristics would you look at in each one to make your decision?
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Old December 9th, 2006, 02:28 PM   #3
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hey steve,

right now a camera in the league of DVX100 if just way out of my budget, i can rent one for my shorts, but I am planning to shoot all 17 of my scripts, so buying one camera would be more viable, but i just dun have the dough for a brand new 3CCD camera.

I did some soul checking and realize that my shorts would probably be very focused on the story, color is a bonus, not a must.

and i dun foresee my shorts ever be screened on a silver screen, the biggest screen it can ever get on is probably the projector screen in a art house or a fringe activity of a film fest, and that usually is not on silver screen either.

So i think what i need to basically a camera that has enough pixels for a projector screen (dont see the pixels) so that I can tell a story and the option of FULL MANUAL CONTROL, i just wanna keep my costs low.

cheers
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Old December 9th, 2006, 02:29 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ong Wan Shu
The reason why someone would shoot with a 3CCD camera instead of a non 3CCD camera (not considering HD at all) is because of better colours from 3 different CCD, right?
No longer always true these days. It depends on which single-chip camera. If it has an RGB color filter, then it can produce color accuracy that can actually beat some 3CCD camcorders. For example, the single-chip Canon Optura will produce better color than the 3-chip Canon GL1 and as good or nearly as good as the Canon GL2. Most of the magic is in the RGB color filter, but the image processor has a lot to do with it as well.
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Old December 9th, 2006, 05:12 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ong Wan Shu
hey steve,

...

I did some soul checking and realize that my shorts would probably be very focused on the story, color is a bonus, not a must.

...
So i think what i need to basically a camera that has enough pixels for a projector screen (dont see the pixels) so that I can tell a story and the option of FULL MANUAL CONTROL, i just wanna keep my costs low.

cheers
Well, I can certainly understand the limitations budget imposes. G** knows, if they were selling steamships for a nickel all I could do is stand on the pier and say "My ain't that a bargain!" But it's a leap from that to saying quality doesn't matter. The image and the sound are how you communicate your story to the audience. Poor quality of both is like trying to tell a story and mumbling throughout so no one can understand what you're saying. Cinema tells the story by creating the illusion that the audience is there present observing the scene as it happens. When the image or sound is of such poor quality that their flaws become apparent to the audience, the spell of the 'suspension of disbelief' is broken and the audience loses that sense of being in an alternate reality. So by all means don't let low or no budget stop you but still, IMHO a good cinema craftsman will shoot for as high as possible a quality of both picture and sound as he can obtain within the constraints of his budget rather than writing it off as unimportant to the story - on the contrary, it's what makes the story come alive for the audience. In that sense, it IS the story since without it the story doesn't get told as effectively.

I say all this because colour rendition is only one of the areas where 3CCD cameras are reputed to better single chip cameras. Other factors of image quality are part of the differences as well, though as Chris points out the lines are certainly getting somewhat blurred. So even if colour per se is less critical, perhaps you're even thinking of shooting in B&W for dramatic reasons for example, don't go too far in the other direction and say overall image quality isn't important.

Just one opinion, FWIW. Best of luck to ya!
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Old December 9th, 2006, 07:39 PM   #6
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In my opinion, just do what makes sense. Probably the best thing you can do is just get out there and start shooting! The consumer miniDV cameras will put out a reasonable quality image- not the greatest, but it's not bad. The audio will need help- at the very least, get something like the Rode Videomic. Go out there, start shooting, make mistakes, and learn from them.

For example, even if your story / your ideas are good, your audience does need to be able to hear the audio. A microphone mounted on the camera will not give passable sound in all situations. So from there, learn ways of solving that problem (i.e. use a boom mic). And learn from that and work up from there.
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Old December 10th, 2006, 02:05 AM   #7
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would you guys think GS500 has good enough sound?

I am very keen now on this camera as i just realize it does gives FULL MANUAL control, just that the controls are in the menus, not on the camera, which I can get used to.

it also has a jack for a external mic, and its possible to tune down its internal mic in menu too.

what do you guys think?
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Old December 10th, 2006, 05:13 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ong Wan Shu
would you guys think GS500 has good enough sound?

I am very keen now on this camera as i just realize it does gives FULL MANUAL control, just that the controls are in the menus, not on the camera, which I can get used to.

it also has a jack for a external mic, and its possible to tune down its internal mic in menu too.

what do you guys think?
Only you can answer if it's acceptable, I haven't worked with one so I can't say. The quality of the camera's internal mic is irrelevant as audio from a mic at the camera position is almost never adequate. I see that it has a jack for an external mic which is good - lets you plug a real mic placed in the right spot into the camera - and that the audio AGC is defeatable, which is also good as manual control of recording levels is very important. It doesn't have a headphone jack so you can't monitor while recording, which is very bad.
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Old December 10th, 2006, 12:48 PM   #9
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Gs500

I have one and definitely concur that the onboard built in mic is like most built-ins not up to what we want.

Yes, the audio control does work on the built in, but I found that I needed to use an external mic to get the volume levels I was used to on voices.

I ordered the Rode StereoVideoMic and tests run a few days ago show I am getting the best MiniDV video and by far the best audio yet.

I make defensive handgun training videos and most of what I have been doing is in a pretty windy outdoor environment (West Texas). I've been using consumer grade camcorders with built in mics and the wind noise has been killing me. So now I will be using the Rode with Deadcat on a boom attached to a sturdy light stand connected to the camcorder with a 16' extension cord and the mic is suspended a foot or two above and in front of my head while I am speaking and demonstrating.

There is a "workaround" to the lack of a headphone jack, using the A/V cable's audio connections with adapters to 1/8" stereo mini jack. I've tried it and it can work but after reading some cautions about possible harm to the camera's audio output circuits I'll be looking for a small battery powered amplifier to go between the audio output and the headphones. (The audio output of the camcorder is designed to input to some kind of pre-amplifier, not drive headphones.)

But so far I am pleased with the PV GS500. The image it produces appears to me to be almost twice as sharp (edge definition) and color more accurate than what I have been using in the way of Digital8 and MiniDV gear.
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