narrowed my search to a few cams

[Sam Rosado]

I just called BH photo and got the used video department. they have an xl1s for 2399., and althought its not what i want to spend, i could do the extra 800.(after begging my wife and agreeing to cook for the next 30 days). Ya know, the rep was rude, unhelpful and it seemed HE was offended that i didnt know too much about the cam. I merely asked him about the drum hours(didnt know xl1s does not have that info), aske dhim about warranty and i felt i had to pry to get him to tell me about the 1 yr exted by MACK. he treated me poorly. made me feel like a greenie(ok so I am) but, I am the consumer right? I need a hug!.......still searching

[Robert M Wright]

The XL1s (and XL2 for that matter) doesn't have XLR input. It could be difficult to find an XL1s, in good condition, for under $1500.

Two other 3 chip SD camcorders, with XLR input, that you might be able to find used for $1500 or less, would be a Sony PD150 (handheld, with 3-1/3") or a Panasonic DVC15 (shoulder mount, with 3-1/4" chips).

An HD1U doesn't have XLR input either. The HD10U does allow XLR input (through a converter on the handle attachment) and going prices (used) are almost the same as for the HD1U (around $1000). Two downsides to either camera are notably poor performance in low light (minimum illumination rating of 35 lux) and lack of manual control (you can't manually set shutter speed and aperture at the same time).

[Sam Rosado]

ok, the pd150 looks great! it has the xlr and also some good reviews here, but what the heck does this mean?

The hours are Operation 193 x10h, Drum 56 x10h, Tape 32 x10h, and Threading 244 x10h.

this cam is 1500.00, this seems pretty high for this cam with this info. I mean, if i can recall,(going back to 1980) when i was using 1/2 tape on a tascam 8 trak recorder, we always looged our sessions to account for head wear, cleaning periods etc. i do remeber some parts of grade school, am i to multiply these equations? what should this item go for at this rate?

[Chris Barcellos]

Sam:

One other issue. You seem to be pushing for xlr inputs. There are alternatives there. With my Sony VX2000, for instance, I use a Beachtech DX4a (or is it A4) adapter. Bolts to bottom of camera, feeds camera, with through the minijack. As a sound guy, you may have your opinions about that, but it has been a course taken by many to add pro mics to their cameras.

[Robert M Wright]

Originally Posted by Sam Rosado

ok, the pd150 looks great! it has the xlr and also some good reviews here, but what the heck does this mean?

The hours are Operation 193 x10h, Drum 56 x10h, Tape 32 x10h, and Threading 244 x10h.

this cam is 1500.00, this seems pretty high for this cam with this info. I mean, if i can recall,(going back to 1980) when i was using 1/2 tape on a tascam 8 trak recorder, we always looged our sessions to account for head wear, cleaning periods etc. i do remeber some parts of grade school, am i to multiply these equations? what should this item go for at this rate?

It might be pretty difficult to find a PD150, with low hours, for $1500 or less. I still suggest the DV300U, as a better value per dollar (can be found for $1000 or less, with low hours).

[Bryan Wilkat]

holy crap, i didnt check this thread for a day and i missed out on so many posts! ..sam, even i'm confused for you...

if youre still thinking about that A1, here's a good link with some specs on it, see what you think and try and compare it to other cameras you're looking at.

http://www.sonyhdvinfo.com/article.p...HC1-and-HVR-A1

maybe that will help a little?

[Sam Rosado]

cHRIS...WHAT YOU SMOKIN DUDE! THATS LIKE ME ASKING YOU VID GUYS TO SHOOT A DOC WITH VHS! LOL....actually, mini jacks do not hold the heat like 1/4 or xlr, mini jacks tend to degrade the sound, burn up and are not built sturdy enough. plus, i like 3 pin seats for true ground. I also like the wire to be a mucher thicker gauge for burn loss. i cant find a site online that has those cams, if you see a post please advise before the missus changes her mood again. bryan, thanks for the link ill check it now...and stop sleeping dude, catch up!........(surfing).............

[Robert M Wright]

Originally Posted by Sam Rosado

i cant find a site online that has those cams, if you see a post please advise before the missus changes her mood again.

DV300Us can be found on eBay, from time to time. I don't see any listed right now. Some real gems can be found on eBay, but if you are not familiar with eBay, be very cautious there.

[Brett Sherman]

Originally Posted by Sam Rosado

cHRIS...WHAT YOU SMOKIN DUDE! THATS LIKE ME ASKING YOU VID GUYS TO SHOOT A DOC WITH VHS! LOL....actually, mini jacks do not hold the heat like 1/4 or xlr, mini jacks tend to degrade the sound, burn up and are not built sturdy enough. plus, i like 3 pin seats for true ground. I also like the wire to be a mucher thicker gauge for burn loss.

I have a strong distaste for 1/8" jacks and highly recommend XLRs for durability. However, if you use a Beachtek adapter an 1/8" mic jack should work fine, especially if you leave it plugged in all the time and not connect and disconnect it continually. You have to remember that the only unbalanced run is from the adapter to the mic jack which is only about 12", so you shouldn't get any RF in that short of space. The Beachtek adapter balances the XLR run to the microphone. The cable gauge is also not an issue since it's a short run. The Beachtek can also bump up the level so you're not requiring your camera's preamps to do all the gain (most don't do well with low output mics). The other problem is that many cameras that have 1/8" mic jacks also do auto gain control, you want to avoid that at all costs. Also having an 1/8" jack may indicate less robust audio performance of the camera in general.

I'm not sure what you mean by "true ground". The ground on the 1/8" is just as "true" as the XLR one. What the 1/8" jack is missing is the noise cancellation properties of a balanced signal. I'm also not sure what you mean by "heat".

[Mathieu Ghekiere]

I thought the XL2 DID have XLR?
Btw, I have an XL1s and I use a Beachteck adapter.

[Eric Shepherd]

Yep, and mine still DOES :)

[Robert M Wright]

I'm confused now. I don't own an XL2, but for "Microphone Terminal" in the XL2 specs on Canon's site, it says "3.5mm stereo mini-jack unbalanced -55 dBv (Auto), -67 dBv (Manual/Vol Max)/600 ohms."

[Eric Shepherd]

Yes, there are 4 mic connections altogether.. The 'front mic' uses a 2.5 and 3.5 mm jack for its connector. It's a stereo mic, and I guess the connectors work like a polarized AC plug. It can only go in one way because of the 2 sizes of connectors.

On the back end of the camera, at the base of it, there is a pair of XLR mic level (not line level) input jacks..

The XL2 can record all 4 inputs simultaneously. One of the few cameras that can, to 4 separate tracks. It does this at 12 bit/32kHz though, vs the higher quality 16 bit/48kHz of standard recordings.

You can also use an adapter from Canon on the front mic jack to connect 2 more XLR mics. So theoretically you could record 4 professional XLR mics into 4 separate tracks without needing a separate mixer for level control. There are meters on the LCD display on the left side of the camera body, as well as in the viewfinder, and they can also be output via the tv output jacks (composite RCA, BNC and S-Video).

So the answer is both.. It's a floor wax AND a dessert topping! ;)

[Sam Rosado]

I'm not sure what you mean by "true ground". The ground on the 1/8" is just as "true" as the XLR one. What the 1/8" jack is missing is the noise cancellation properties of a balanced signal. I'm also not sure what you mean by "heat".[/QUOTE]


sorry Brett, those are ol skool terms. I was referring to true ground as having the 3 pins, all metal. 1/8 or 1/4 jacks have that plastic or sealent around the ring that tend to burn up. cracking and then allowing the jack to move. if the metal touches another metal, then you get degradation in your sound. sound is an energy, heat, so the louder the gain the more heat. some manufacturers sealent or plastic rings can be sub standard, causing them to seperate thus giving off burn loss, which is a decline in decibals(.5) its an ol tale that can be disputed, however, in the 80's feild recording was also monitored through spectral analyzers which showed the level loss or difference in the wave. I know this is not much of a problems nowadays with digital and all, but when i see a input with minijacks it makes me cringe. 1/4 although bigger still gives me no more comfort. I have an audio digital recorder with xlr inputs that i use to capture the entire project on site so I can mix it seperatley. I did chooes to buy the xl1s could find a decent dv300u. also, whats a good dum hr ratio? im clueless!

[Bruce S. Yarock]

Sam,
I've owned a Canon GL1 and a Canon XL2. The XL2 is a fantastic camera and has everything you want. You can get a clean used XL2 on this forum for around $2300 (maybe less). I sold mine 3 months ago for $2400.
I now shoot with a Canon XLH1, a Sony FX1 and a Canon HV10. I HIGHLY reccomend the FX1. The image is beautifull, it's real 16:9 (or 4:3), and you can shoot in standard or HD. The 24 and 30 frame rates are questionable,but some people use them. I shoot in 60i and de interlace if I need to. You can probably get a clean used FX1 for $2200. You'd also need a beachtek box that's another $160 or so.
I'd try to put together a few more bucks and gret yourself a camera like the XL2 or FX1.
Good luck
Bruce Yarock
www.yarock.com