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Old April 15th, 2007, 08:05 AM   #16
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I read the part of "from a tape" and thought they were recording tape at the same time. Too early to read well.
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Old April 15th, 2007, 08:28 AM   #17
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OK i don't really know if this will be of any help.. but i trust hard drives more then tape or disk backup. The reason why is because they cost almost nothing and you can back up to more the one drive and store them in more then one location... Now tape backup is something i always do when i am done with a project. so print to tape or exporting to tape is fine if your willing to deal with having to recapture and the loads of tapes you will have to store.

Bill says use blu ray and i have a blu ray drive and video looks amazing and you can always use it as data BUT!!!! blu ray is so new who knows what the disks can handle, how long will they last.

lets pretend you don't like hard drive because your scared of data lose. would something like this change your mind. WARNING don't look at the price there are cheap ways to do this but this device just is one of the first few out there... so if it's something you would be interested in i can shot you an email with what i use.

http://www.drobo.com/products_demo.aspx

anyway what ever you decide good luck with your search.

~Mike
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Old April 16th, 2007, 07:01 AM   #18
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Golden disks?

I read about these a while back, then kind of forgot. But late last week I made a trip to a local computer store and while looking at some blanks, I saw the golden disks, both CDs and DVDs. They are advertised as the "100 year disk".

Has anyone looked into this option? What do we know at this point about them?
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Old April 16th, 2007, 09:09 PM   #19
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I would record everything from the hard drive to digital tape for long term storage.
You can always find a deck to play back almost any tape format. In 5 years, today's hard disk storage may be obsolete and you may have a computer that is unable to read the format. Also look at the cost factor for storing perhaps hundreds of projects in a few years.
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Old April 17th, 2007, 06:51 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Allen Williams View Post
I would record everything from the hard drive to digital tape for long term storage.
You can always find a deck to play back almost any tape format. In 5 years, today's hard disk storage may be obsolete and you may have a computer that is unable to read the format. Also look at the cost factor for storing perhaps hundreds of projects in a few years.
Allen W
Allen i have to disagree. Yes hard drives are changing already they are going solid state more expensive for the time being but still the same formats just flash not disk based...SAFER FOR MEDIA... and as far as a computer not being able to read the format it would take decades for a format to be killed off.. look at divx it was the worst format ever,,, now divx is HUGE!!!...

as far as finding a deck... i know that i can play back any digital format on my computers ANY. there are codecs for anything. but where will you find a deck in 5 years that can playback most media. if anything the tape and the decks will go bad in 5 years.

Now Allen I do think it's always best to have your finals on tape. You never know when someone needs a copy or you wont have your computer around, or you go from one platform to another MAC TO PC or the other way around.

what i do is i back up EVERYTHING to hard drives no matter what.. the first reason i do that is because it's faster if i need to re edit or pull up some footage i dont have to recapture. but i have like 8 tapes and counting that i put aside and i start at the front of the tape (not all the way roll it 1 min, in case you need to slice and fix) and i justs export to tape until it's full.

This thread will easily be a old school tape junkie vs the new media geeks.

everyone is untiled to there own way of doing things... what we need to do here is just provide what we are doing so that Will can make his choice.

At my news station we currently have the interns transferring all the old tapes to hard drives for better storage. it was a big decision that looked a lot like this thread

good luck will

~Mike

P.S. I am not defending hard drives vs tape or the other way around.. i just think it's better but to be fair.... 45 Mins of HD on tape is 45 mins... 45 mins of HD on hard drive is alot more then DV.
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Old April 18th, 2007, 02:13 AM   #21
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Allen i have to disagree. .
Perhaps you're right. Perhaps you're not.
My 3/4" tapes & deck from the early eighties still work fine. My Betacam deck still works fine. I have loads of original & master VHS & Super VHS tapes from the eighties that are still in mint condition and play fine. All of these decks can still be purchased on E-bay and at video auctions and can still be repaired if they break down. The way I figure it, if they haven't failed in the last 25 years, they'll probably be here in the next five. Now my Radioshack TRS-80, my old Commodore and Amiga computers, my DOS based PC, my Video Toaster and original Newtek Flyer, gone with the passing wind. Can't even get parts to retrieve old data. All original programing done with DOS. What the heck is that? Can't even find a floppy diskette player to play those original 5 inch floppies. Most of the 3 1/2" disks don't work and I have a small box of failed hard drives that I refuse to get rid of because my bank accounts & other personal information is stored on them. I can't even find any punch cards that I went to school for. One of my editing computers uses DPS Velocity which is still faster than almost any other editing program on the market. But the computer itself. Windows NT. Other than being a host for Velocity and a few other programs I use for editing, the PC is obsolete. No Firewire, USB port, unable to use a printer. Thankfully my other editing computer with Velocity is a newer version.

The one thing all the computers had in common when I purchased them. . They were the end solution and I wouldn't have to worry about obsolence. Not!

The point is, computers, software & hardware change faster than a blowing wind.
So far the tapes and decks have withstood the passage of time.
Planned obsolence will almost guarentee your computer will be obsolete within five to ten years based on past history.
Perhaps your right, perhaps you're not.
History will be the judge. So far it hasn't been kind to computers.
Allen W
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Old April 23rd, 2007, 06:40 PM   #22
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DVDs are supposed to be good for 50 years (at least the manufactured ones). I believe that is also true of the burnable types. HD Blu-ray at 25 GB should allow you to store your m2t file and transfer quickly. I have seen $11 per single side and prices will drop. I would prefer in most cases to use my used tapes for such backup, but not a player with A1 and PP2 at this time.

Biggest drawback on tape is that it oxidizes over time. HDV can drop for a 1/2 second due to a bad spot on tape. So over time the tape degrades in signal just look at old analog VHS tapes -- only good supposedly to 10 yrs., however they still play although progressively noisy. Digital should as long as the head reads the tape ok will stay good untill oxidation causes digital data losses. I don't know how long that takes.

Bill in Ohio
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Old April 23rd, 2007, 11:05 PM   #23
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Hollywood DVD's may last 50 years or more, but I seriously doubt the burnable DVD's will last anywhere near that amount of time. I'm not an expert but I have a feeling that tape will outlast a burnable dvd.
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Old April 24th, 2007, 08:12 AM   #24
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This topic falls under personal preference big time. But no matter what choice you go with there is a risk... pros and cons for every media.

~Mike
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Old April 24th, 2007, 09:26 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alessandro Machi View Post
Hollywood DVD's may last 50 years or more, but I seriously doubt the burnable DVD's will last anywhere near that amount of time. I'm not an expert but I have a feeling that tape will outlast a burnable dvd.

Tape has proved to be surprisingly fragile. The oxides are reasonably stable, the substrates are very stable, but the binders that hold them together are quire ephemeral. There are lot's of data tapes out there that have become unreadable in just one or two years and there are huge libraries of audio and video tapes in the hands of broadcasters and archivists that are quickly becoming marginal. To keep long-term, tapes need to be stored under very controlled conditions.
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Old April 24th, 2007, 12:26 PM   #26
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Data tapes I don't know much about.

I have a 3/4 videotape from 1979 that plays fine. I haven't tried it in a couple of years because I moved the 3/4 machine out of my editing room but that 1979 3/4 tape was fine the last time I tried it about two-three years ago.

There was one brand of 3/4 videotape that was made back then that became "sticky" over time and had a very unnacceptable videotape life. At this point in time most videotapes that were recorded in the 80's still play fine as long as they weren't stored in places that exhibit huge temperature and humidity shifts.

The scary part is one dodgy videotape can wreak havoc on a Video deck.

As for harddrive storage, what is the oldest harddrive currently in use among the forum members?

Last edited by Alessandro Machi; April 24th, 2007 at 04:06 PM.
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