canon xl1s as second cam to pd-150...footage interchangeable? at DVinfo.net

Derek Beck · May 10th, 2003, 11:28 AM

I have a possible 2nd cameraman for a shoot I'll be doing in Aug. He has a Canon XL1S. I feel that the PD150 will produce footage this is equal to what his camera will produce, thereby making the footage interchangeable in the post production process. Would you all agree?

Derek Beck · May 10th, 2003, 03:22 PM

I have a possible 2nd cameraman for a shoot I'll be doing in Aug. He has a Canon XL1S. I feel that the PD150 will produce footage this is equal to what his camera will produce, thereby making the footage interchangeable in the post production process. Would you all agree?

Jeff Donald · May 10th, 2003, 04:44 PM

Yes, I agree. Do a search and you'll find a thread on how to set the XL1S (S not plain XL1) to closely match the Sony look. You can get a near perfect match in post if you like, also.

Rick Spilman · May 10th, 2003, 06:25 PM

The great thing about Sonys is that they all have a custom preset feature that will allow you to tweek the color, sharpness, white balance shift and so on, to match the Canon. ( I don't think the XL1 had this feature though I believe the XL1S does.)

Once the cameras are set up together, just make sure that you white balance them at the same time and under the same conditions and you shouldn't have any problems.

Derek Beck · May 10th, 2003, 06:42 PM

How do I insure the color sharpness is synced? (The white balance syncing I do understand...that's easy :)

Rick Spilman · May 10th, 2003, 07:41 PM

What I do to match two cameras is pretty non-technical but it works. I set up the two cameras on tripods pointing at a planter outside the window of my office. (The flower petals and green leaves give me a nice mix of colors, highlights and shadows.) I plug both cameras into a monitor I trust and tweak the color and sharpness adjustments (they are seperate adjustments on teh PD150) until the two cameras match as closely as I can get them to match. Like I said very non-technical but it works for me.

If you don't have flowers I am sure color bars would do. ;)

Mike Rehmus · May 10th, 2003, 10:17 PM

You will find the color and apparent sharpness different between the two cameras. So if you both shoot the same scene, there will be a noticable difference. If you are shooting different topics and cutting the footage together, it will probably be unnoticable to the average viewer.

You can cut the sharpness of the 150 and change the color to match the Canon if you must. I think you can make it a custom setting although I've never tried.

Ken Tanaka · May 10th, 2003, 10:41 PM

Converesly, if you prefer the look of the PD150 you'll be able to adequately adjust the XL1s' sharpness and color to match the PD150.

Either direction you decide to go, give yourself plenty of pre-production time to experiment if possible. It may be hard to adequately match cameras on-set just before a shoot. Too much turmoil and other matters requiring attention.

David Mintzer · May 11th, 2003, 06:50 PM

Rick---maybe I am missing something but how do you do color adjustments on a PD-150. The only manual controls I can find are the standards---focus, shutter speed, AE, gain, Fstops---etc. I know that the more expensive pro camcorders have lots of neat stuff you can play with but I haven't found that to be the case on the PD-150---please educate me.

James Arlent · May 11th, 2003, 10:04 PM

"Converesly, if you prefer the look of the PD150 you'll be able to adequately adjust the XL1s' sharpness and color to match the PD150."

Can you really manually change the sharpness and color on XL1s?

Where is the necessary switches located?

Ken Tanaka · May 11th, 2003, 10:28 PM

Yes, you can. The controls are in the camera's menus. If you do not own the camera you can download the manual from the Canon DV site to see for yourself.

Rick Spilman · May 12th, 2003, 06:28 AM

It is in the "Custom Presets" menu which the folks at Sony have chosen to hide (in plain sight) on the PD150. Instead of being in the"menu" like on my old VX1000, it is activated by pushing the small button marked "custom preset" on the back of the handle just in front of the viewfinder. The adjustments are "color level" , "sharpness", "wb shift" and "AGC limit".

Personally I find the Sony presets too flat, so the first thing I did when I got my PD150 was tweek the color level so I had greater saturation. The custom presets allow a fairly wide range of choices.

Mark Argerake · May 12th, 2003, 08:07 AM

Derek - we may want to get to the shoot a little early or hook up a week or two before hand so we can work out any kinks in this.

It sounds like it's very doable. I'm guessing we'll both need to match gain as well?

Test footage would be key I think.

May 10th, 2003, 11:28 AM	#1
Derek Beck Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 50	canon xl1s as second cam to pd-150...footage interchangeable? I have a possible 2nd cameraman for a shoot I'll be doing in Aug. He has a Canon XL1S. I feel that the PD150 will produce footage this is equal to what his camera will produce, thereby making the footage interchangeable in the post production process. Would you all agree? __________________ Derek Beck

May 10th, 2003, 03:22 PM	#2
Derek Beck Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 50	canon xl1s as second cam to pd-150...footage interchangeable? I have a possible 2nd cameraman for a shoot I'll be doing in Aug. He has a Canon XL1S. I feel that the PD150 will produce footage this is equal to what his camera will produce, thereby making the footage interchangeable in the post production process. Would you all agree? __________________ Derek Beck

May 10th, 2003, 04:44 PM	#3
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	Yes, I agree. Do a search and you'll find a thread on how to set the XL1S (S not plain XL1) to closely match the Sony look. You can get a near perfect match in post if you like, also. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

May 10th, 2003, 06:42 PM	#5
Derek Beck Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 50	How do I insure the color sharpness is synced? (The white balance syncing I do understand...that's easy :) __________________ Derek Beck

May 10th, 2003, 10:17 PM	#7
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	You will find the color and apparent sharpness different between the two cameras. So if you both shoot the same scene, there will be a noticable difference. If you are shooting different topics and cutting the footage together, it will probably be unnoticable to the average viewer. You can cut the sharpness of the 150 and change the color to match the Canon if you must. I think you can make it a custom setting although I've never tried. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!

May 10th, 2003, 06:25 PM	#4
Rick Spilman Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Jersey City, NJ Posts: 366	The great thing about Sonys is that they all have a custom preset feature that will allow you to tweek the color, sharpness, white balance shift and so on, to match the Canon. ( I don't think the XL1 had this feature though I believe the XL1S does.) Once the cameras are set up together, just make sure that you white balance them at the same time and under the same conditions and you shouldn't have any problems.

May 10th, 2003, 07:41 PM	#6
Rick Spilman Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Jersey City, NJ Posts: 366	What I do to match two cameras is pretty non-technical but it works. I set up the two cameras on tripods pointing at a planter outside the window of my office. (The flower petals and green leaves give me a nice mix of colors, highlights and shadows.) I plug both cameras into a monitor I trust and tweak the color and sharpness adjustments (they are seperate adjustments on teh PD150) until the two cameras match as closely as I can get them to match. Like I said very non-technical but it works for me. If you don't have flowers I am sure color bars would do. ;)

May 10th, 2003, 10:41 PM	#8
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Converesly, if you prefer the look of the PD150 you'll be able to adequately adjust the XL1s' sharpness and color to match the PD150. Either direction you decide to go, give yourself plenty of pre-production time to experiment if possible. It may be hard to adequately match cameras on-set just before a shoot. Too much turmoil and other matters requiring attention. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

May 11th, 2003, 06:50 PM	#9
David Mintzer Rextilleon Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Pleasantville, NY Posts: 520	Rick---maybe I am missing something but how do you do color adjustments on a PD-150. The only manual controls I can find are the standards---focus, shutter speed, AE, gain, Fstops---etc. I know that the more expensive pro camcorders have lots of neat stuff you can play with but I haven't found that to be the case on the PD-150---please educate me.

May 11th, 2003, 10:04 PM	#10
James Arlent Tourist Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 4	"Converesly, if you prefer the look of the PD150 you'll be able to adequately adjust the XL1s' sharpness and color to match the PD150." Can you really manually change the sharpness and color on XL1s? Where is the necessary switches located?

May 11th, 2003, 10:28 PM	#11
Ken Tanaka Retired DV Info Net Almunus Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 6,943	Yes, you can. The controls are in the camera's menus. If you do not own the camera you can download the manual from the Canon DV site to see for yourself. __________________ Lady X Films: A lady with a boring wardrobe...and a global mission. Hey, you don't have enough stuff! Buy with confidence from our sponsors. Hand-picked as the best in the business...Really! See some of my work one frame at a time: www.KenTanaka.com

May 12th, 2003, 06:28 AM	#12
Rick Spilman Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Jersey City, NJ Posts: 366	It is in the "Custom Presets" menu which the folks at Sony have chosen to hide (in plain sight) on the PD150. Instead of being in the"menu" like on my old VX1000, it is activated by pushing the small button marked "custom preset" on the back of the handle just in front of the viewfinder. The adjustments are "color level" , "sharpness", "wb shift" and "AGC limit". Personally I find the Sony presets too flat, so the first thing I did when I got my PD150 was tweek the color level so I had greater saturation. The custom presets allow a fairly wide range of choices.

May 12th, 2003, 08:07 AM	#13
Mark Argerake Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Murrieta, CA Posts: 227	Derek - we may want to get to the shoot a little early or hook up a week or two before hand so we can work out any kinks in this. It sounds like it's very doable. I'm guessing we'll both need to match gain as well? Test footage would be key I think.