16:9 or the normal format at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > Open DV Discussion

Open DV Discussion
For topics which don't fit into any of the other categories.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old May 11th, 2003, 09:02 AM   #1
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 74
16:9 or the normal format

hi guys,

pls help me check if my logic of the follwoing is right.

Which format is shoot on depends on the my intended final release format. However, at this point, i dun know yet. So its safer to shoot on 16:9 format rather than the normal one BECAUSE to change from 16:9 to normal format, i crop the sides with editing software. BUT if i shoot on normal format, I have to crop top or bottom to get to 16:9, which may cut away the forehead or headspace of a shot.

Thus 16:9 is more "flexible" True or False?

Also, shooting on 16:9 means losing pixels in the initial recording. True or false?

Thanks for your help!!!
Ong Wan Shu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 12th, 2003, 10:50 PM   #2
Contributor
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 4,449
If you shoot in 16:9 and need a final master for 4:3 release, you can do a resize in your timeline to 75%, leaving the "keep aspect ratio" box (or whatever it may be called in your system) unchecked. This will give you a letterboxed image without distortion, but it will, of course, have black at the top and bottom. If you have a camera with 16:9 chips, like a DSR500WS or equivalent, then there will be no quality loss in 16:9, but if you have a smaller chip camera with 4:3 chips, there may be some loss in quality. Also, depending on your editing system, there could also be loss of quality when you make the letterbox version. So, it is true that 16:9 gives you more flexibility in that you can have a true 16:9 picture for wide screen TV's or for DVD release and still make a letterbox version for 4:3. It is also true that you will probably have more softness and grain to the picture by doing that.
Bill Pryor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 12th, 2003, 11:14 PM   #3
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Mays Landing, NJ
Posts: 11,543
<<<-- Originally posted by Bill Pryor : If you have a camera with 16:9 chips, like a DSR500WS or equivalent, then there will be no quality loss in 16:9, -->>>

The PDX-10 (and perhaps the DV-953) are the only cameras under $10,000 which can approach this (DSR570 is something like $14,000 without lens).

However, even with one of these you DO NOT want to "crop the sides with editing software" to turn 16:9 into 4:3. I think Ong has a fundamental misunderstanding of what 16:9 is when it comes to DV. If you were shooting HD then this might be a viable solution. But with DV, NTSC video is always 720x480, regardless of the aspect ratio. When you shoot 16:9 the image is compressed horizontally to fit into 720 pixels, such that everything looks tall and skinny. Then when viewed on a widescreen TV it's stretched back out to fit the 1.78 aspect ratio.

So even with a "real" 16:9 camera you'd be throwing away lots of image data by "cropping the sides". Don't do it this way, it makes no sense. If you can't decide then shoot 4:3 but compose your shots so they can be cropped to 16:9 later. This could be as simple as putting some electrical tape on your viewfinder or LCD screen.

<<<-- Originally posted by Bill Pryor : if you have a smaller chip camera with 4:3 chips, there may be some loss in quality

There's no "may" here... you lose 25% of the verical resolution. To create a 16:9 image on the PD-150, XL-1s, GL-2, etc. the top and bottom are blacked out or "letterboxed". So you end up with a 720x360 image area instead of 720x480. It may be that for certain types of scenes this isn't noticeable. But the quality loss is real and quantifiable.

If you want 16:9 you probably shouldn't be using a PD-150. Get a PDX-10. It has chips with more pixels and can do 16:9 the "right" way, using all 480 vertical lines. I got one just for this reason. The other solution would be to get an anamorphic lens for the PD-150. I find these require unacceptable compromises, and they're expensive. You cannot zoom through the full range with them, they vignette at full wide zoom, you can't add a wide adaptor to them, they have focus issues and they require expensive matteboxes/filter holders.
Boyd Ostroff is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > The Tools of DV and HD Production > Open DV Discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:32 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network