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Old June 21st, 2007, 05:53 PM   #16
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I would get a boom pole. I just got the Rode boom pole, which you can find for $99, and a gitzo shockmount that runs about $65 (You need the shockmount with boom, to hold the mic. You COULD go cheap and just get a mic clip that screws on, but then you're not isolating the mic from any vibrations the pole experiences, which translates to the mic picking up noise very easily). The Rode pole seems decent enough for what you (and I) do. You can even run an XLR cable throug it (the bottom and top are slotted, and the bottom comes off) and make what essentially a wired boom pole (very cool).

Again, with the mixer--I got mine just for a line level signal (the ME66 normally outputs a mic level signal-the mixer boosts it so you can set the camera for line level--which gives you a better signal to noise ratio than mic level. Mic level, however, is used often, even in the pro world, and is perfectly acceptable). You don't need a $1200 mixer, though. You can get an uber cheap one if you don't need to walk around with it (if it can be set down and plugged in while you're using it, I mean). If you need to wear it and be mobile, those are pricier.
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Old June 21st, 2007, 07:08 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Terry Lee View Post
There is alot of information here to consider. Thank you all for your information.

Most of my filming will be outdoors. However there will be some instances where I will be indoors filming in a documentary style (where a single person is talking sitting in a chair etc...) I don't know the term for that type of shot.

I'm just alittle confused as to what I actually need. Some tell me that I need a portable mixer with a boom pole/shotgun mic and now others are saying that it is not necessary. (help!)

Terryh

Terry,

Here's a little food for thought...

A member here named Ash Greyson shot this documentary on the music group Hanson (maybe you have heard of them?), gonzo style with what I beleive was an XL1s and the stock mic (maybe he can chime in and give feedback).

http://www.strongenoughtobreak.com/

I never heard him mention anything about $800 boom poles, and $1,200 mixers, $500 shotgun mics, and $900 ubertitainium connectors, etc, etc.

If this bare bones setup is good enough for his project, it's good enough for yours. And I still have not heard anything about a tripod. Do you have one?
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Old June 21st, 2007, 08:56 PM   #18
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I believe Ash has years of industry experience. Once you know how to do everything "right", I'm sure it's easier to know what you can do "wrong" (and how to do it) and get away with, in terms of either not taking a huge hit in quality, or making sacrifices average joes'll never notice.

He's right about a tripod. If you get a good fluid head tripod suited for whatever you camera you end up with, you'll never regret it . It'll probably be expensive, but it's one of those things you really shouldn't skimp on.
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Old June 22nd, 2007, 05:26 PM   #19
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Thank you all!

So do I even need a mixer!?

(confusion has set in..)
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Old June 22nd, 2007, 08:25 PM   #20
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You wouldn't be a bad guy for putting it low on your priority list at this point vs. getting a nice tripod, a boom, a mic, etc.
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Old June 22nd, 2007, 09:48 PM   #21
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Alright, so I can actually have a boom mic without using an external recorder (mixer) correct? and this would serve the same purpose as everyone is telling me; that is, get the mic off the camera to have desent sound. Or am I wrong?

If this is possible, I can go with the XH A1 (a cheeper camera without the jackpack/timecode output capeability, which would have then only allow me to have external audio recording) If there are other reasons the G1 has a jack pack please let me know.

The tripod I had in mind was the Manfrotto 501 head but what stand do you suggest?
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Old June 23rd, 2007, 03:38 AM   #22
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Alright, so I can actually have a boom mic without using an external recorder (mixer) correct? and this would serve the same purpose as everyone is telling me; that is, get the mic off the camera to have desent sound. Or am I wrong?
Yes, all you need are XLR inputs on the camera. You can run your boom mic to those.

Quote:
If this is possible, I can go with the XH A1 (a cheeper camera without the jackpack/timecode output capeability, which would have then only allow me to have external audio recording) If there are other reasons the G1 has a jack pack please let me know.
Can you give us a reason why you think you need the G1 with the Jack Pack? Maybe you can get more accurate feedback on if you do or don't.

Quote:
The tripod I had in mind was the Manfrotto 501 head but what stand do you suggest?
If the camera is just going to sit on the tripod for interviews, the 501 will work. If you plan to do lots of panning or tilting, the 501 is not a good choice. I would get at LEAST the 503.
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Old June 23rd, 2007, 04:16 PM   #23
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Thanks Adam.

Steve house had informed me in a pervious thread "aspiring film maker needs pro's help"

Quote:
Your question begs a certain lack of appreciation for the critical importance of sound to the production or the amount of technique required to record it properly. An on-camera mic is almost always going to be inadequate for capturing production sound regardless of whether you use the manufacturer-supplied mic or replace it with something better - it has its uses but production sound and dialog ain't among them. Shotguns for outdoors, hypercardioid mics for dialog recording both indoors and out, a boom with shockmount and wind protection to hold them both close enough to the actors, perhaps wireless laveliers for micing performers in wide shots where a boom isn't possible, a good sound mixer and/or recorder, a smartslate and associated timecode capabilities if you elect to record double system sound are all going to be required. If you're going to record to a separate recorder, that will influence your choice of camera as well since you need to have some way of getting the timecode OUT of the camera in order to sync the recorder to it - the XH A1 won't do that and so right there it's eliminated from the running and now we're looking at the XH G1 or XL H1 as the minimum camera you should consider since with those you get genlock input and timecode I/O, critical for proper sync to external recorders, while the A1 doesn't have those features.
This is why I believe that I need a camera capeable of getting the timecode out of the camera so that I can "line up" the audio with the frames.

This makes sense to me. However, if it is not necessary to buy a $1200 mixer then I shall wait till I am better equip (mentally) to take on that heigth of film production.

My goal is simply to make short films that will train me with the equipment enough that I can start making better quality films (film for Angel Mounds for instance) with the same equipment. I am trying to eliminate extra expenses by cutting right to what I would need to make a good quality film instead of buying a cheaper camera & equipment for starters.

To my understanding, sound is as important as the actual film itself. Therefore the same amount of attention should be put into the audio as is the film. This is the reason behind the choices of equipment (Sound devices 302/me66-boom mic/hd110u) Right there I have both sound and film taken care of.

But in the thread some are saying that it is not necessary. You can get adaquate sound without having the mixer. This is why I am confused.
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Old June 24th, 2007, 01:13 AM   #24
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If you can have an audio person following you around for the shot, then it can be helpful for him/her to have a field mixer.

In some documentary situations, you might be doing a one-man army kind of thing. With one person, you can't operate the camera and a boom mic at the same time. That just ain't possible. So you would just stick with other approaches... like getting audio from a camera-mounted mic (not ideal). If you are interviewing people on location (not in a controlled interview situation), there are different approaches there.
Obviously if you have a sound guy you could boom from above.
If you can lav them up, you can stick a wireless lav on them.
If you don't have time for a lav / don't know the subject that well / they may not be comfortable with it, you could use a handheld mic.
Or you can get the camera close to them.

2- For your training seminars you might want a wireless lav.
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Old June 24th, 2007, 02:19 AM   #25
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Yes, you can do excellent work going straight into cam from mic, without a mixer.

Something to consider, is, like the guy above me said, if you don't have an audio guy, you need to find another way to handle the boom mic and pole. One thing that works well, unless your actors are moving all over the place, is to get a light stand or C-stand (light stands are usually cheaper, C stands are heavier and therefore sturdier, and with the gobo arm, more versatile), and get a fishpole holder (or some kind of clamp) that plugs into the c-stand, and put the boom in that. It holds it steady, and you can place it wherever you want. If your actors/sound source move(s) around a lot, it's no good, though.
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Old June 24th, 2007, 02:34 AM   #26
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Forget the mixer for right now. It should be at the bottom of your worry list. You can always add later.

1. Pick a camera.

2. Pick one mic.

3. Pick a tripod.

4. Pick your editing software.

Those four right there will give you enough problems and bring up enough questions to last you years.
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Old June 24th, 2007, 09:16 PM   #27
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Ok, after some very good constructive criticism, I have changed my shopping list. In the mix, I will ask questions on my choices in hopes that you will offer your thoughts and perhaps direct me to the better buy.

Since I will not need a camera capeable of time code out put, I am going to go with the XH A1. My previous camera was the JVC HD110u, but since I will not be buying a mixer, I will not need a camera such as the G1 with the Jackpack.

Camera - (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...Camcorder.html)

Tripod - (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...Legs_with.html)

Mic - (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...oid_Short.html)

Head phones - (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...u=49510&is=REG) will these be necessary with my kit??

The 4th thing on the list will be the editing software. I have been drawn to the Sony Vegas with Sound Forge, Sony Nois Reduction & DVD Architect. Does B&H have this kit? and if so can someone give me the link?

My main concern with the editing software is its ability to handle HDV, since I will have an HDV camera. I have noticed that some editing software has had some problems with HDV. What problems (if any) might I run into with Sony Vegas?
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Old June 24th, 2007, 09:33 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Terry Lee View Post
Ok, after some very good constructive criticism, I have changed my shopping list. In the mix, I will ask questions on my choices in hopes that you will offer your thoughts and perhaps direct me to the better buy.

Since I will not need a camera capeable of time code out put, I am going to go with the XH A1. My previous camera was the JVC HD110u, but since I will not be buying a mixer, I will not need a camera such as the G1 with the Jackpack.

Camera - (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...Camcorder.html)

Tripod - (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...Legs_with.html)

Mic - (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...oid_Short.html)

Head phones - (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...u=49510&is=REG) will these be necessary with my kit??

The 4th thing on the list will be the editing software. I have been drawn to the Sony Vegas with Sound Forge, Sony Nois Reduction & DVD Architect. Does B&H have this kit? and if so can someone give me the link?

My main concern with the editing software is its ability to handle HDV, since I will have an HDV camera. I have noticed that some editing software has had some problems with HDV. What problems (if any) might I run into with Sony Vegas?

Those are all good choices and will get you on the road to making a documentary. Make sure you have a computer that can handle the HD editing also. HD is taxing to a computer and requires you have a pretty new computer with lots of RAM and a good video card.
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Old June 25th, 2007, 02:53 PM   #29
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Thanks Adam!

Could someone give me an Idea of what I will need for an editing system and more importantly, does B&H have Sony Vegas with sound forge, Sony Nois Reduction & DVD Architect? Does that stuff normally come standard with the Sony 7.0 kit?
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