Starting from scratch at DVinfo.net

Trent O Connor · May 23rd, 2003, 08:45 AM

Hi people.

Just got back from the Production Show in London. Hoped it would answer some questions but it didnt. I think its made it worse - so here I am.
I used to work for a small prod. company. We used VX2000's and edited using premiere, capturing with pinnalce DV500+.

I now want to start from scratch.

A - Should I stick with the VX2000? Is there anything for around the same price which is superior?

B - Which editing system should I go for? After visiting the show im wondering whether to try a Mac for the first time with final cut pro? Or maybe try the cheapest Avid system to learn the industry standard. Or maybe the Matrox100.

Oh dear lord.

Also, while you're reading this, apart from alienware, anyone know any good sites to buy a system from in the UK?

many thanks.

Bill Pryor · May 23rd, 2003, 10:35 AM

I think the VX2000 is the best thing out there for the money. So if funds are limited (who has unlimited funds?), it's still an excellent deal, in the U.S. I don't know what prices would be like in PAL-land.

As far as editing, I've used Avids on Macs for many years and find Avid to be easy and intuitive. I think FCP is probably getting close to being equal to the XDV, and either one would probably work fine for you. If you learn one, you can learn the other easily. With the low end Avid, XpressDV, you can go with either a Mac or a PC. It would be adviseable to check with an Avid rep before buying a PC, because you would need to make sure you get one that will work properly with XDV. When you buy XDV, they give you a version for PC and for Mac.

Trent O Connor · May 23rd, 2003, 10:57 AM

Appreciate it.
I've thought of sticking with the VX2000 as its never really done me wrong.
I'm undecided on editing as I have PC software and so changin to a Mac would be a big move for me. However, I keep reading good things about the Final Cut range.
Seems to be like buying a car.
Some say Pinnacle, some say Matrox. Use Premiere.
Use Avid.
Who knows?

By the way, being dumb, if I get Avid Express - do I need to buy a capture card?

Akos Szemenyei · May 23rd, 2003, 10:17 PM

As long as you have firewire, you are set. As far as AVID Xpress being intuitive, my personal point of view is... no way in H**L, as you can tell I use FCP now. I started out on the AVID but after Premiere it felt like a step back in the work flow, so I went FCP, it has it's negative things but way more flexible in how to do things.

Avid is kinda like Fireworks, it's great once you know it, but is it intuitive? no way. On the other hand, I can do more and be more creative with FCP as an added bonus.

Also depending on what you are going to shoot, check out the Panasonic DVX100.

Trent O Connor · May 24th, 2003, 09:59 AM

G4 Mac Video&Film Editing Suite. Dual 500 MHz Processors (= To 1.65 GHz Pentuim). 896 Ram. 3 40 GB Hard Drives (x1 Maxtor x2 Seagate) Plus aditional ATA Card To fit extra Hard Drives. Modem And Ethernet Built In. Sound Card Built In. PCI Slots 1: Matrox RT Mac/62Mb/Connecting Box External. For RCA In/Out And Svideo In/Out.Firewire In/Out Broadcast Quality Capture Card.Enables Dual Monitor Working. 2: SCSI Card 3: SCSI Card 4: Empty 1 Apple Studio Display 17". 1 Apple Moniter Display 17". 4 USB Ports. 2 Fire Wire Ports. 1 Zip Drive 100MB (Internal). 1 DVD-RAM Drive (Internal) Apple Disc Burning Supported. 1 Microtek Scanner 330 1 Lacie CD/RW Writer (External) Software Operating Systems 9.2.2 & Os X 10.2.0 Premeiere 5.1 Final Cut Pro 3.0 And Others

This is currently on ebay. will go for about a grand (£1,000).
is this good enuff to run with? i'll then get 'pro 4' when it comes out and dvd studio pro 2

Akos Szemenyei · May 24th, 2003, 11:08 AM

Not really, a little to slow, I have a Dual 867 and that's ok, but I wonder how much RT I will get with FCP 4. Also FCP 4 requires an AGP port for the graphics, I don't think that Mac has it.

Trent O Connor · May 24th, 2003, 11:12 AM

Hmm, guess i'll have to keep looking.

Or is worth buying and upgrading?

Akos Szemenyei · May 24th, 2003, 09:35 PM

You cannot upgrade to an AGP port, it's on the motherboard itself. (or not in this case)

Bill Pryor · May 26th, 2003, 08:39 AM

Akos, I came to video from a film background, which is probably why I found Avid more intuitive. Didn't know much about computers or Macs when I started editing on one. If you learned on Premiere or other things, then I can see how you would perhaps think it was more difficult. I think editing systems are like automobiles--they all get you from point A to point B, but some do it faster than others, and some are more comfortable for certain people than others. That's why it's a good idea to go to a dealer and spend a couple of hours with somebody who can let you sit down and show you some basics so you can start pushing buttons and actually edit some stuff. If you can do more and be more creative with FCP, it's probably because you know it better, which, of course, is the key to any type of video editing--you have to learn the tools well enough to be comfortable using them so they become an asset rather than an obstacle. The few times I've gone into Avid editing suites other than my own, I've taken more time than normal to do things because their settings would be different from mine, which is why people who edit in different suites always take along a CD with their own settings.
I think almost any high end NLE is fairly easy to learn these days and can do the job. Most problems I've seen relate to the operator more than the equipment...what's intuitive to me may not be to somebody else.

Jeff Donald · May 26th, 2003, 08:58 AM

The dual 500 does indeed have an AGP port. It is a special PCI slot and that's what your video card sits in. The video card can be improved by removing the old card and replacing it with a new card. This would give you more video memory and give you the ability to run dual monitors etc.

Rick Spilman · May 26th, 2003, 09:16 AM

If you are going PC, I would consider either Avid or Vegas. If you are working with others and want to be able to upload to other Avid systems then go with Avid.

If you have used Premiere in the past, consider Vegas. Far better software, far more stable.

Trent O Connor · May 26th, 2003, 12:10 PM

I think he's already running dual monitors, but getting a newer video card would give me an AGP port to run FCP4?
Im confused but thinking of buying the ebay system. I'm guessing it'll go for £1350'ish. I can upgrade to what I need and still save on a new one.
maybe.

Akos Szemenyei · May 26th, 2003, 12:23 PM

Bill, I actually spent over 2 weeks with with Avid Xpress 3.5, but every time I wanted to do something it felt like a hassle, so I went out and bought a Mac and FCP 3, even though I've never owned a Mac before. And for me at least, was one of the best choices I've ever made. The only thing I regret is that I didn't do it sooner.

Anyway, I can probably agree that if you compare cutting film on a flatbed or an avid nonlinear editing system, the Avid wins.

The other reason for going FCP is that I can evolve as my projects hopefully will, all the way up to HD, film etc. And I can do some basic compositing as well without leaving FCP.

TRENT. About the AGP port, I guess I was wrong, but I still think that the dual 500 mac will be very limited even if upgraded with a better graphics card and stuff.

EDIT
FCP4 is only dependent on the CPU's and I think that you won't really use the RT-MAC since it has limited amount of RT-effects as far as I know.

Trent O Connor · May 26th, 2003, 12:27 PM

well now i really dont know! 4 minutes of auction left and its still at £1,080!

OK - let me update. Auction has ended, noone met the reserve. Last bid was £1120.

Im now wondering (by now with a headache - u poor people must have one too by now as well) if I should e-mail with a bid of around £1250.
Run with it with premiere (which is on there) as i know how to use it. At the same time, learn the FCP3 he has with it to see how i get on.
then if my filming venture takes off i'll know whether to upgrade to a newer system and FCP4.
I think im trying to run before i can walk.

Cheers for everyones help, its been much appreciated.

Nigel Moore · May 26th, 2003, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Dual 500 MHz Processors (= To 1.65 GHz Pentuim).

Where did they get that from?

May 23rd, 2003, 08:45 AM	#1
Trent O Connor Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Hertfordshire, UK Posts: 94	Starting from scratch Hi people. Just got back from the Production Show in London. Hoped it would answer some questions but it didnt. I think its made it worse - so here I am. I used to work for a small prod. company. We used VX2000's and edited using premiere, capturing with pinnalce DV500+. I now want to start from scratch. A - Should I stick with the VX2000? Is there anything for around the same price which is superior? B - Which editing system should I go for? After visiting the show im wondering whether to try a Mac for the first time with final cut pro? Or maybe try the cheapest Avid system to learn the industry standard. Or maybe the Matrox100. Oh dear lord. Also, while you're reading this, apart from alienware, anyone know any good sites to buy a system from in the UK? many thanks.

May 23rd, 2003, 10:57 AM	#3
Trent O Connor Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Hertfordshire, UK Posts: 94	Cheers Bill Appreciate it. I've thought of sticking with the VX2000 as its never really done me wrong. I'm undecided on editing as I have PC software and so changin to a Mac would be a big move for me. However, I keep reading good things about the Final Cut range. Seems to be like buying a car. Some say Pinnacle, some say Matrox. Use Premiere. Use Avid. Who knows? By the way, being dumb, if I get Avid Express - do I need to buy a capture card?

May 24th, 2003, 09:59 AM	#5
Trent O Connor Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Hertfordshire, UK Posts: 94	what do u think? G4 Mac Video&Film Editing Suite. Dual 500 MHz Processors (= To 1.65 GHz Pentuim). 896 Ram. 3 40 GB Hard Drives (x1 Maxtor x2 Seagate) Plus aditional ATA Card To fit extra Hard Drives. Modem And Ethernet Built In. Sound Card Built In. PCI Slots 1: Matrox RT Mac/62Mb/Connecting Box External. For RCA In/Out And Svideo In/Out.Firewire In/Out Broadcast Quality Capture Card.Enables Dual Monitor Working. 2: SCSI Card 3: SCSI Card 4: Empty 1 Apple Studio Display 17". 1 Apple Moniter Display 17". 4 USB Ports. 2 Fire Wire Ports. 1 Zip Drive 100MB (Internal). 1 DVD-RAM Drive (Internal) Apple Disc Burning Supported. 1 Microtek Scanner 330 1 Lacie CD/RW Writer (External) Software Operating Systems 9.2.2 & Os X 10.2.0 Premeiere 5.1 Final Cut Pro 3.0 And Others This is currently on ebay. will go for about a grand (£1,000). is this good enuff to run with? i'll then get 'pro 4' when it comes out and dvd studio pro 2

May 26th, 2003, 08:58 AM	#10
Jeff Donald Warden Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Clearwater, FL Posts: 8,287	The dual 500 does indeed have an AGP port. It is a special PCI slot and that's what your video card sits in. The video card can be improved by removing the old card and replacing it with a new card. This would give you more video memory and give you the ability to run dual monitors etc. __________________ Jeff Donald Carpe Diem Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Where to Buy? From the best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

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May 23rd, 2003, 10:35 AM	#2
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	I think the VX2000 is the best thing out there for the money. So if funds are limited (who has unlimited funds?), it's still an excellent deal, in the U.S. I don't know what prices would be like in PAL-land. As far as editing, I've used Avids on Macs for many years and find Avid to be easy and intuitive. I think FCP is probably getting close to being equal to the XDV, and either one would probably work fine for you. If you learn one, you can learn the other easily. With the low end Avid, XpressDV, you can go with either a Mac or a PC. It would be adviseable to check with an Avid rep before buying a PC, because you would need to make sure you get one that will work properly with XDV. When you buy XDV, they give you a version for PC and for Mac.

May 23rd, 2003, 10:17 PM	#4
Akos Szemenyei Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Saitama, Japan Posts: 111	As long as you have firewire, you are set. As far as AVID Xpress being intuitive, my personal point of view is... no way in H**L, as you can tell I use FCP now. I started out on the AVID but after Premiere it felt like a step back in the work flow, so I went FCP, it has it's negative things but way more flexible in how to do things. Avid is kinda like Fireworks, it's great once you know it, but is it intuitive? no way. On the other hand, I can do more and be more creative with FCP as an added bonus. Also depending on what you are going to shoot, check out the Panasonic DVX100.

May 24th, 2003, 11:08 AM	#6
Akos Szemenyei Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Saitama, Japan Posts: 111	Not really, a little to slow, I have a Dual 867 and that's ok, but I wonder how much RT I will get with FCP 4. Also FCP 4 requires an AGP port for the graphics, I don't think that Mac has it.

May 24th, 2003, 11:12 AM	#7
Trent O Connor Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Hertfordshire, UK Posts: 94	Hmm, guess i'll have to keep looking. Or is worth buying and upgrading?

May 24th, 2003, 09:35 PM	#8
Akos Szemenyei Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Saitama, Japan Posts: 111	You cannot upgrade to an AGP port, it's on the motherboard itself. (or not in this case)

May 26th, 2003, 08:39 AM	#9
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Akos, I came to video from a film background, which is probably why I found Avid more intuitive. Didn't know much about computers or Macs when I started editing on one. If you learned on Premiere or other things, then I can see how you would perhaps think it was more difficult. I think editing systems are like automobiles--they all get you from point A to point B, but some do it faster than others, and some are more comfortable for certain people than others. That's why it's a good idea to go to a dealer and spend a couple of hours with somebody who can let you sit down and show you some basics so you can start pushing buttons and actually edit some stuff. If you can do more and be more creative with FCP, it's probably because you know it better, which, of course, is the key to any type of video editing--you have to learn the tools well enough to be comfortable using them so they become an asset rather than an obstacle. The few times I've gone into Avid editing suites other than my own, I've taken more time than normal to do things because their settings would be different from mine, which is why people who edit in different suites always take along a CD with their own settings. I think almost any high end NLE is fairly easy to learn these days and can do the job. Most problems I've seen relate to the operator more than the equipment...what's intuitive to me may not be to somebody else.

May 26th, 2003, 09:16 AM	#11
Rick Spilman Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Jersey City, NJ Posts: 366	If you are going PC, I would consider either Avid or Vegas. If you are working with others and want to be able to upload to other Avid systems then go with Avid. If you have used Premiere in the past, consider Vegas. Far better software, far more stable.

May 26th, 2003, 12:10 PM	#12
Trent O Connor Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Hertfordshire, UK Posts: 94	I think he's already running dual monitors, but getting a newer video card would give me an AGP port to run FCP4? Im confused but thinking of buying the ebay system. I'm guessing it'll go for £1350'ish. I can upgrade to what I need and still save on a new one. maybe.

May 26th, 2003, 12:23 PM	#13
Akos Szemenyei Regular Crew Join Date: May 2003 Location: Saitama, Japan Posts: 111	Bill, I actually spent over 2 weeks with with Avid Xpress 3.5, but every time I wanted to do something it felt like a hassle, so I went out and bought a Mac and FCP 3, even though I've never owned a Mac before. And for me at least, was one of the best choices I've ever made. The only thing I regret is that I didn't do it sooner. Anyway, I can probably agree that if you compare cutting film on a flatbed or an avid nonlinear editing system, the Avid wins. The other reason for going FCP is that I can evolve as my projects hopefully will, all the way up to HD, film etc. And I can do some basic compositing as well without leaving FCP. TRENT. About the AGP port, I guess I was wrong, but I still think that the dual 500 mac will be very limited even if upgraded with a better graphics card and stuff. EDIT FCP4 is only dependent on the CPU's and I think that you won't really use the RT-MAC since it has limited amount of RT-effects as far as I know.

May 26th, 2003, 12:27 PM	#14
Trent O Connor Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Hertfordshire, UK Posts: 94	well now i really dont know! 4 minutes of auction left and its still at £1,080! OK - let me update. Auction has ended, noone met the reserve. Last bid was £1120. Im now wondering (by now with a headache - u poor people must have one too by now as well) if I should e-mail with a bid of around £1250. Run with it with premiere (which is on there) as i know how to use it. At the same time, learn the FCP3 he has with it to see how i get on. then if my filming venture takes off i'll know whether to upgrade to a newer system and FCP4. I think im trying to run before i can walk. Cheers for everyones help, its been much appreciated.