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Panasonic AVCCAM Camcorders
AVCHD for pro applications: AG-AC160, AC130 and other AVCCAM gear.


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Old February 9th, 2009, 12:02 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Mark Von Lanken View Post
Hi Jon

I also learned the following information from the same Sony PDF. Mpeg 2 compression operates in blocks of 16 x 16 pixels. Mpeg 4 compression operated is blocks of 4 x 4 pixels. If you think of the screen as a jigsaw puzzle, Mpeg 2 sees about 6000 pieces and Mpeg 4 sees about 100,000 pieces.

I'm not an engineer, but all of those numbers from Sony seem to support what I saw in the video on the Panasonic site comparing HDV to AVCHD.
Panasonic also states in their literature that these characteristics give AVCHD an advantage in handling motion more cleanly than MPEG2 can. I can state that when shooting sports work, (720/60p) the HMC handles motion better than my HDV cam, so I'm a believer.
I think it's a great cam, and chose it first for its codec, second for its low light ability. No regrets.
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Old February 9th, 2009, 07:59 AM   #17
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Mark,

Your points are compelling and appear to be 100% accurate. I watched the video on Panasonics website and if you are telling me Sony is publishing information that backs that video up, it would appear what I've been reading around in general forums is in fact bad information (most likely the result of people speaking about topics of which they do not know) so I thank you for pointing this out.

I know people have complained about the performance aspects of AVCHD on the timeline (any editor), I would imagine using Cineform's Neo Scene and converting AVCHD into 10-bit 1920x1080 .avi files would solve this issue and probably be a better place to edit from anyway.

Does anybody agree or disagree with this?

Jon
Jon:

I was surprised myself at the amount of people on DVinfo (and the SCS Vegas forum) who are so against AVCHD they are blinded to the facts. Chris H. usually steps in with fact when misinformation goes too far.

I also think the reports of slow AVCHD editing are a little over exaggerated too. I have been editing projects natively in Vegas 8.0c since October 2008 on Q6600 and Q9650 based machines with no problems on 1080i and 720P30 projects. This is in comparison to the HDV off a XH-A1. The slowest process I have found is running a deshaker script on 1080i AVCHD material. That gives 6 to 8 FPS speed. You can also edit mixed native HDV and AVCHD projects (HMC-150 & XH-A1) off the Vagas timeline with no problem.

If handling 720P60 and some AVCHD performance enhancements are included in Vegas 8.0d, it will a great native AVCHD editing experience IMO.

So, I don't think transcoding to another format is needed now or especially in the future ( unless your hardware platform is lacking).
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Old February 9th, 2009, 08:07 AM   #18
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Panasonic also states in their literature that these characteristics give AVCHD an advantage in handling motion more cleanly than MPEG2 can. I can state that when shooting sports work, (720/60p) the HMC handles motion better than my HDV cam, so I'm a believer.
I think it's a great cam, and chose it first for its codec, second for its low light ability. No regrets.
One huge plus I have seen on my video is the reduced shimmer/strobing when you do a pan. I don't shoot sports, but the strobing I used to get on some HDV pans was very distracting.

I think the AVCHD video is just a little smoother and easier on the eye to watch.
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Old February 9th, 2009, 11:36 PM   #19
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Yes Jeff, I agree with you 100% on that. It (AVCHD) does look smoother and definately does better on panning.
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Old February 10th, 2009, 10:47 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by Jon McGuffin View Post
Update:

Mark, I downloaded your files, downloaded the Neo Scene trial and transcoded your AVCHD files into the Cineform .avi's as I had suggested in the prior post.

Results are incredible and super smooth playback inside Vegas 8.0c. Files are native 1920x1080,29.97fps,60i files. I trust you shot this footage at 60i?

Jon
Hi Jon,

I'm glad the files worked with Neo. The footage was a mix. The reception with pink accent lighting was shot in 30p. The other footage has an audible identification.
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Old February 10th, 2009, 10:52 AM   #21
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I would like to see a FireStore that records directly via HDMI with an edit friendly codec.

Does anybody know if HDMI transfers keep their TC, UB, etc ?
Hi Eric,

That would be quite a useful device. I hope the manufacturers are listening.
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Old February 10th, 2009, 11:46 AM   #22
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Hi Eric,

That would be quite a useful device. I hope the manufacturers are listening.
Do you mean like this?



CineForm - Frequently Asked Questions
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HMC150 Footage Available For Download-cineformrecorder.jpg  
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Old February 10th, 2009, 11:51 AM   #23
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Hi Jeff,

Yes, exactly. I would love to test one of those with the HMC150. I wonder how long until it will come to market?
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Old February 10th, 2009, 06:14 PM   #24
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Mark,

Do you know the directory structure the downloaded files came from?

I have downloaded them and tried to import using the "Log and Transfer" in FCP 6.0.5, but it does not recognize the mts files.

I have read that I can download a few programs that will transcode for me, but I wanted to try it in FCP alone.

Thanks for your help
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Old February 10th, 2009, 06:36 PM   #25
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I had to actually rename the files with an .mts extension on my windows box. Maybe that has something to do with it.

Jon
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Old February 10th, 2009, 06:55 PM   #26
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Jon,

I gave that a shot on the Mac. . .still can't see the files.

I can see them, but they are grayed out. I cannot select them.
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Old February 11th, 2009, 07:47 AM   #27
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Mark,

Do you know the directory structure the downloaded files came from?

I have downloaded them and tried to import using the "Log and Transfer" in FCP 6.0.5, but it does not recognize the mts files.

I have read that I can download a few programs that will transcode for me, but I wanted to try it in FCP alone.

Thanks for your help
Hi Brian,

I'm not sure what you mean by "directory structure". As far as I know, FCP will need the files transcoded first.
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Old February 11th, 2009, 08:01 AM   #28
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Mark,

Yes, you are correct about Final Cut Pro needing to transcode the mts files first.

I downloaded the files, saved them to the harddrive in their own folder. When I got to transcode them in FCP through Log & Transfer, the files are grated out and I cannot select anything. The error message states something to the effect of "not the original directory structure".

It is my understanding with FCP, if you don't transcode directly out of the camera, you need to copy the files from the card in the exact file structure they were recoded in. I was just curious if you knew what that structure was before you put them up for us to download?

I am just trying to get a pulse on how long the transcoding process takes with FCP and how the files perform after transcoded with my Intel Mac.

Thanks for putting the files up for testing.
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Old February 11th, 2009, 12:40 PM   #29
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Mark,



...I downloaded the files, saved them to the harddrive in their own folder. When I got to transcode them in FCP through Log & Transfer, the files are grated out and I cannot select anything. The error message states something to the effect of "not the original directory structure".

It is my understanding with FCP, if you don't transcode directly out of the camera, you need to copy the files from the card in the exact file structure they were recoded in. I was just curious if you knew what that structure was before you put them up for us to download?

I am just trying to get a pulse on how long the transcoding process takes with FCP and how the files perform after transcoded with my Intel Mac...
Hi Brian,

The clips were taken from different cards over the course of 3-4 shoots. I'm not sure how to upload the entire card structure, as it is complex. There is an AVCHDTN folder, and a BDMV folder. Within the BDMV folder is the CLIPINF folder, PLAYLIST folder and STREAM folder. The MTS files are within the STREAM folder.

Has anyone been able to transode the files I uploaded, on a mac?

We are in the middle of transferring our 4 websites to a new server. Once that is complete I can see about uploading the entire file structure, but I don't have it from the footage I posted. I can shoot one minute of footage, and upload that. Then you will know how long it takes to transode per minute.
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Old February 11th, 2009, 03:23 PM   #30
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on an 8 core mac pro 3.2 with 8GB of RAM, transcoding was roughly 30 seconds per minute of footage once the AVCHD was transferred to the RAID system.
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