HMC150 vs FX1 - Page 2 at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Panasonic P2HD / AVCCAM / AVCHD / DV Camera Systems > Panasonic AVCCAM Camcorders

Panasonic AVCCAM Camcorders
AVCHD for pro applications: AG-AC160, AC130 and other AVCCAM gear.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old May 28th, 2009, 02:29 PM   #16
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 8,421
The general opinion is that FX1000 is better in low light, but the Panasonic looks relatively good with increased gain.

It is pretty close, from what I can see so far.
Jeff Harper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 28th, 2009, 07:07 PM   #17
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 857
With the time you save by going cardless, you can buy a lot of cool stuff. ;o) Keep in mid that cardless is way, way more durable, so your cam will last a lot longer with less liabilty with no moving parts. That's why Panny offers the 3-yr warranty.
__________________
www.LegacyHDV.com
Weddings | Corporate | HMC150s | FCPX | Encore | Lion
Dana Salsbury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 28th, 2009, 07:55 PM   #18
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pembroke Pines FL
Posts: 331
Any side by side footage of the fx1000 vs HMC150?
__________________
www.nostalgicFrames.com
Dror Levi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 28th, 2009, 07:57 PM   #19
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ontario, Ca.
Posts: 121
I did a lot of research before purchasing my HMC. I didn't have another prosumer camera to match to in the timeline, so my main reasons were the tapeless workflow, good low light sensitivity, and the wide angle lens. Some people may need a 20x zoom, but for weddings I don't, and that wide angle keeps me from having to spend hundreds on a quality wide angle converter, as well as the extra weight that would be hanging on the front.

These are both excellent camera's, and I think having similar cameras in the workflow would probably be the deciding factor if I were buying now. But I can't say enough about the tapeless workflow and the wide angle lens.
Tom Alexander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 28th, 2009, 08:30 PM   #20
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Pembroke Pines FL
Posts: 331
What about archaiving?
istruth that after transfering the file to the computer the file size is double then on the card?
__________________
www.nostalgicFrames.com
Dror Levi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 28th, 2009, 10:39 PM   #21
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 857
Yes, they are huge...but:

You pop the card in the reader. Copy the compressed files (smaller than HDV). Back up the compressed files. Start your job. Transcode the files - granted, they will be huge. Do the job. Render. Burn. Delete the huge files. Keep the compressed.

In the end, digitally speaking you will take up less space. If you have the compressed files on two drives, it *may* take up more space, but not by much. (Maybe a numbers guy can elaborate.)
__________________
www.LegacyHDV.com
Weddings | Corporate | HMC150s | FCPX | Encore | Lion
Dana Salsbury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 29th, 2009, 12:26 AM   #22
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 910
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dror Levi View Post
Any side by side footage of the fx1000 vs HMC150?
Hi Dror,

When choosing between the FX1000 and HMC150, the HMC has XLR inputs, which are a big deal for me. Another advantage of the HMC150 over both the FX1000 and Z5 is CCDs. The FX1000/Z5 use CMOS, and if you shoot with a lot of photography flashes, the rolling shutter look of CMOS is nasty...which is up to personal opinion. You know mine, it's up to you to decide if you like or don't like the look of rolling shutter.

The HMC150 does not have a 20x zoom lens, but the HMC150 lens is wider than the FX1000. When doing a recent workshop, I was suprised how much more I could get in a shot with the HMC150 over the FX1000.

The HMC150 is also lighter than the FX1000, and on the wedding day, I shoot almost everything handheld except the ceremony. If you do Glidecam work, the lighter weight of the HMC150 really makes a big difference.

Being a "Sony" man for many years, I had always heard about the "Panny Mojo", but had never experienced it until I got my hands on the HMC150. I'm now a believer.

I have side by side footage of the Z5 and HMC150. The visuals from the Z5 and FX1000 should be very close, if not identical. This clip includes low light shooting as well as examples of how CCD and CMOS handle flash photography.
Tips & Tricks
__________________
Mark Von Lanken
www.VonWeddingFilms.com
Mark Von Lanken is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 29th, 2009, 08:58 AM   #23
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Manchester, NH
Posts: 181
Mark, how would you compare the XH-A1 to the HMC150? One of the things that I really like about the XH-A1 is the fact that it is easy to control much of it without going into menus.
__________________
Cana Video Productions, LLC
Manchester, NH
Cesar Ruiz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 29th, 2009, 09:14 AM   #24
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 8,421
One thing I need to throw in that is either being overlooked, ignored, or I'm missing something: When recording with the Panasonic the files are broken into 4gb clips, which I'm finding creates a small break in the video.

Initially I've had errors with Cineform, as the audio length isn't matching the video.

I have read of the tribulations of AVCHD and now I'm experiencing it firsthand.
Jeff Harper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 29th, 2009, 09:23 AM   #25
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Virginia Beach, VA
Posts: 656
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cesar Ruiz View Post
Mark, how would you compare the XH-A1 to the HMC150? One of the things that I really like about the XH-A1 is the fact that it is easy to control much of it without going into menus.
The XH-A1 is like a childs toy and the HMC-150 is a professional recording tool.


However, the movie Crank 2 is/was being shot primarily with the XH-A1/G1. It will be very interesting to see how that turns out (even if the content is absurd). Im sure the with professional lighting, multiple takes and studio quality editing software, it will look great.
__________________
Panasonic HMC150/Canon A1/JVC HD1/Sony Vegas 8.0c
Jeff Kellam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 29th, 2009, 09:25 AM   #26
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 8,421
Drori, one thing I need to throw in: When recording with the Panasonic the files are broken into 4gb clips, which creates a small break in the video. From what I'm finding there is no way around this.

Initially I've had errors with Cineform, as the audio length isn't matching the video. While Cineform works well for MANY people, I see many who also have plenty of issues with it.

I have read of the tribulations of AVCHD and now I'm experiencing it firsthand. I'm about to try Upshift, but that still leaves the video gap issue.

While these issues might iron themselves our as I play with these files, I must say that AVCHD is a nasty little format. It is nice to be able to drag and drop from the card, but that is where the advantage of AVCHD seems to end, as best as I can see it.

After an evening of playing with these files, I have cancelled my plans to use the camera this weekend. I'm using my trusty HV30 for the wireless audio.

Unfortuntely I do not have time right now to deal with AVCHD until I find a software solution for converting the files into standard definition .avi widescreen files that are not umpteen times larger than the original files.
Jeff Harper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 29th, 2009, 10:10 PM   #27
Regular Crew
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ontario, Ca.
Posts: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Harper View Post
Drori, one thing I need to throw in: When recording with the Panasonic the files are broken into 4gb clips, which creates a small break in the video. From what I'm finding there is no way around this.

Initially I've had errors with Cineform, as the audio length isn't matching the video. While Cineform works well for MANY people, I see many who also have plenty of issues with it.
It appears that you are having some initial frustrations, but the problems you have been describing have been worked out (although I've never heard of that problem with Cineform before) and you should find less headaches as it starts to come together for you.

I see that Mark posted the .mts clip join tool in the other thread. This was actually dealt with fairly early on by manually copying together the clips seamlessly from the command prompt, so most have never considered this a problem.

1. Press WIN+R
2. Type cmd and press Enter
3. Navigate to the folder where the files are located ....
4. Type copy 00000.mts /b + 00001.mts /b + 00002.mts /b output.mts
5. Press Enter
6. Wait until it is done. (It takes several minutes to complete.)

Anyway, this is not the fault of AVCHD, its the FAT-32 file system on the SDHC cards.
So far, I've never actually had to do it for a video, only to make sure that it worked in case I ever needed to.

AVCHD is a still tad ungainly to work with compared to HDV, but that is changing rapidly as software gets better at handling it natively and computers get more powerful. I can edit natively on my Quad Core desktop, but for my laptop I need to either convert to Cineform (no problems so far) or use proxy files. Either way, I wouldn't trade the tapeless workflow to go back to HDV.

Contact Cineform, they are very responsive.
Tom Alexander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 29th, 2009, 10:30 PM   #28
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 8,421
Actually I downloaded the program Mark linked to and it worked like a champ.

I'm not gonna lie, I am already not happy with the AVCHD thing. I should have know better than to start in on something new in the middle of wedding season. Cineform has never been something I wanted to use, my workflow cannot include triple or even double-sized files. Well it could, but 10TB of drives is enough for me to keep track of.

Transcoding, from what the Panny help file says, produces separate video and audio files. My reaction to that was "give me a break". And for the transcoder to work at all I have to copy the whole file structure from the card...which I find cumbersome.

I feel pretty confident I'm going to let someone else experience the joys of AVCHD while I try out hard disc recorders or something else. This camera will probably be in the classifieds next week.

Part of my problem is my workload. I'm doing two and three weddings a week, most all of them three cams and I'm editing them all myself. On average each wedding takes me about a week to edit. I didn't finish last October's weddings until February of this year, and I really don't need this learning experience right now.

I have liked some of the images I've seen, and have nothing but nice things to say about the camera. But the files are my idea of hell.

I deeply appreciate the support here, great group.
Jeff Harper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 30th, 2009, 06:51 AM   #29
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 857
The files you'll have on deck will be massive, but when you're done with the job you can delete them. In the long run it's an easier workflow to me. Either way, if you sell it you will get a good price. My Pastor always said, "If you find yourself in Hell -- don't stay there!"


Can I combine/merge clips on my Mac? I waste a lot of time scrolling to bring in 'the next clip'. I used to deal with just one HDV clip per tape, and miss that feature.
__________________
www.LegacyHDV.com
Weddings | Corporate | HMC150s | FCPX | Encore | Lion
Dana Salsbury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 30th, 2009, 07:36 AM   #30
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 8,421
Actually Dana not long after I put up that last post I put the camera up for sale. I'm looking at a Z5 or Z7.
Jeff Harper is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Panasonic P2HD / AVCCAM / AVCHD / DV Camera Systems > Panasonic AVCCAM Camcorders

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:25 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network