How difficult to output 60p? at DVinfo.net

Burt Alcantara · February 11th, 2011, 06:29 PM

I'm in the market for a video camera. I have a T2i which, for me, is completely unsuable. Too much fiddling with focus and no IS. All the video I've shot is horrible because I couldn't get it all coordinated.

I'm more project based. When I get an idea I want to just do that. After the project, I may not touch the camera for months so I want something that does not require practicing for Carnegie Hall.

My main use is to make little movies.

I've kind of narrowed it down to the affordable TM700 and Canon HF-S200. I keep reading that the TM700 is a giant killer but the big drawback is editing 60p.

I have Sony Vegas Platinum 10 and used it for the T2i stuff. I have a fast computer - i7-920 6GB RAM. I edited all .mov files directly. Found that transcoding was a waste of time and never saw any benefit.

So, with my setup and a TM700 what would I output my "movies" to? I don't doubt that I can read and play the files in Vegas, I'm more concerned about the output. I don't understand "pulling down" and the transfiguration required.

I'd like to post to Vimeo and YouTube so I can share. Am I making a mountain out of an anthill?

Thanks,
Burt

Dan Carter · February 11th, 2011, 11:12 PM

With Vegas, these settings will do nicely:

Format or Save as Type: Windows Media Video V11 (*WMV)
Template: 6 Mbps HD 720-30p or 8 Mbps HD 1080-30p

Kirk Candlish · February 11th, 2011, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burt Alcantara

I'd like to post to Vimeo and YouTube so I can share. Am I making a mountain out of an anthill?

Yeah you are, but only because you're unfamiliar with it.

As Dan has pointed out it's really straightforward on the PC side using Vegas.

I'm working on a Mac and it's simple to convert the native MTS files in ClipWrap and transcode to ProRes 422 before importing to Final Cut Pro.

So really it's very doable on either platform.

When you upload to Vimeo with 60P they just drop every other frame and it's becomes 30 FPS.

The TM700 is an amazing camera. I have worked with Pro cameras for many years and the TM700 puts most of them to shame. Be aware that it's just been replaced with the TM900. There are great deals on the old model and you'll pay a premium for the new one for the first couple of months. So decide what you want to invest and then go for it.

Burt Alcantara · February 12th, 2011, 12:19 AM

Budget wise, the TM700 just squeaks in. The 900 is almost twice as much. As I am not a pro or do any paid work the 700 should be fine. Everyone here gives it rave reviews. My only concern was having hassles with the 60p but as you said it is because I am not familiar with that format.

Thanks for the help,
Burt

Paulo Teixeira · February 13th, 2011, 10:42 AM

It's a difference of $350. At least we know the TM900 offers an updated stabilizer, higher resolution screen and a noise free cooling system. I'm still wondering about other changes.

Andy Wilkinson · February 13th, 2011, 11:52 AM

Plus "even better image processing", a changed design to the Camera<>Off<>Media switch, a few mm difference in outside dimensions.

I'm still wondering if they improved the position of the DC in jack (i.e. not behind the battery). My TM900 arrives Tuesday, all being well, so will know for sure then.

I believe they've updated the bundled software (handling 60p etc.). Not sure I'll use that anyway since I use Vegas on PC and FCP on Macs but that might be important for some.

Price differential between TM900 and TM700 seem a lot less here in the UK - we pay high price and high tax on both! I ordered my TM900 for £775 from a reputable dealer who sells cameras in the Bristol area - before they had stock. Now they have stock the price is currently £799 on their website. Generally, at the moment, TM700s don't seem to go for a lot less than this - from what I saw when I ordered my TM900 a week ago (again, reputable dealers only considered).

Claire Watson · February 13th, 2011, 02:04 PM

My TM900 arrived Saturday, after all I read so far it is currently living up to my expectations.

My main camera is an EX1R so this little feller gave me quite a surprise when I unpacked it, smaller than I ever realised!

I got an hours charge into the battery and checked it out in the garden. I was only interested in it's 50P mode in manual operation, soon I started to see why the previous model was named a "giant killer".

My main concern was would it suffer from the TM700's "Bondi Blue" sky/water? I breathed a sigh of relief when I found it not so. I am used to zebras, histogram, etc and hey they were there! Manual is a bit fiddly, cannot alter iris and shutter the usual way, alter iris and if you return to shutter iris does it's own thing, hmmm,,

The stabiliser is simply breathtakingly good! When all three modes are on, there are times it's almost like being on a tripod. With 80% optical zoom, one arm leaning on a wall for extra stabilty , birds on a feeder, hardly any movement, wow! (I normally lug my huge and heavy Vinton AS around with the EX1R)

The TM900's 50P footage edits like butter in Edius and plays as smooth as silk. This morning I found it works through my PS Media Server which I have installed on the computer. This connects the computer to my PS3 in the lounge, I was able to play through all the raw 50P clips while watching them on the Panasonic 42" Plasma.

So far so good, am well impressed.. still reading the book though...

Kirk Candlish · February 13th, 2011, 02:40 PM

"My main concern was would it suffer from the TM700's "Bondi Blue" sky/water?"

Huh ?

My TM700 works fine with the ocean and sky here in Southern California. It suffers no confusion about which side of the equator we're on. But then people wanked about the fan being loud in TM700s and I've never heard mine. Urban lore, gotta love it.

Claire Watson · February 13th, 2011, 03:08 PM

Whatever...

Andy Wilkinson · February 13th, 2011, 03:13 PM

Hi Claire, so I'm dying to know. Where is the DC in socket on the TM900?

Claire Watson · February 13th, 2011, 04:16 PM

Hi Andy, following you has kept me informed about this camera, thanks for that...

The DC socket is on the top right back corner of the camera (looking from it's rear), level with the viewfinder eyepiece, on the curved part of the body, there is a snap on'off rubbery cover over it.

So it's easy to get to and of course no need to remove the battery but I think I would have preferred a charger that the battery sits in like my EX1R charger because at the moment the TM900 is out of action while the battery is charging. When I get more batteries to charge the camera will be out of action even longer!

Hope your TM900 turns up on time.

Andy Wilkinson · February 13th, 2011, 04:31 PM

Thanks Claire.

Also, just so anyone reading this knows....I've just learnt (on another forum) that the TM900 takes DIFFERENT batteries to the TM700.

Bit of a bummer really as I have a £80 high capacity one for a TM700 being shipped to me as I write (from Amazon). I took a "leap of faith" that it would be the same...why would it not be....how silly of me! [I now know/realise the marketing reason why of course]. Looks like that battery is going back unopened!

Apparently, there are no supplies of the larger batteries for the TM/HS/SD 900 series yet available in the UK....

Just a short term minor inconvenience for me - but just posting this in case 700 series owners are thinking of geting a 900 series as a second cam and find this thread. Yep, you'll need a new set of batteries too!

And finally my apologies to the OP, sorry Burt, we've all totally hijacked your thread about the TM700 and 60p editing!

Kirk Candlish · February 13th, 2011, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claire Watson

Whatever...

Exactly...

Kirk Candlish · February 13th, 2011, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Wilkinson

Thanks Claire.

Also, just so anyone reading this knows....I've just learnt (on another forum) that the TM900 takes DIFFERENT batteries to the TM700.

Bit of a bummer really ...

Andy battery technology is improving quickly and the latest Li-ion batteries are significantly quicker to charge and hold more power.

It's a good thing that they're using new technology.

It took me 3 months to get a larger battery for the TM700 here in the U.S. because the cameras were so popular and Panasonic had stopped making the old batteries as they transitioned to the new.

Burt Alcantara · February 14th, 2011, 10:34 AM

Well, since we're discussing batteries, is there any "truth" to decoding? I have a lot of after market batteries (read eBay) for my T2i. While they don't read to the "nth" degree, they let me know when it's time to change. Is this the same for the after market TM700/900 batteries? The diff in price is small but why spend more on something that does nothing?

I don't mind the hijack since I've not put the cash down yet. The 900 looks nice but it is a serious bump in money, for me anyway. On top of that, I'm wondering if a camcorder market will exists in 3-5 years since the limitations of auto focus and IS are being slowly solved for the DSLR market.

Unfortunately, everything will be obsolete then including all my Canon glass so perhaps I'm just a worry-wart.

Burt

February 11th, 2011, 06:29 PM	#1
Burt Alcantara Regular Crew Join Date: May 2010 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 55	How difficult to output 60p? I'm in the market for a video camera. I have a T2i which, for me, is completely unsuable. Too much fiddling with focus and no IS. All the video I've shot is horrible because I couldn't get it all coordinated. I'm more project based. When I get an idea I want to just do that. After the project, I may not touch the camera for months so I want something that does not require practicing for Carnegie Hall. My main use is to make little movies. I've kind of narrowed it down to the affordable TM700 and Canon HF-S200. I keep reading that the TM700 is a giant killer but the big drawback is editing 60p. I have Sony Vegas Platinum 10 and used it for the T2i stuff. I have a fast computer - i7-920 6GB RAM. I edited all .mov files directly. Found that transcoding was a waste of time and never saw any benefit. So, with my setup and a TM700 what would I output my "movies" to? I don't doubt that I can read and play the files in Vegas, I'm more concerned about the output. I don't understand "pulling down" and the transfiguration required. I'd like to post to Vimeo and YouTube so I can share. Am I making a mountain out of an anthill? Thanks, Burt

February 13th, 2011, 10:42 AM	#5
Paulo Teixeira Trustee Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 1,773	It's a difference of $350. At least we know the TM900 offers an updated stabilizer, higher resolution screen and a noise free cooling system. I'm still wondering about other changes. __________________ https://www.youtube.com/user/PhotoVi...esEtc/featured https://www.pond5.com/artist/paulot

February 13th, 2011, 11:52 AM	#6
Andy Wilkinson Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 2,853	Plus "even better image processing", a changed design to the Camera<>Off<>Media switch, a few mm difference in outside dimensions. I'm still wondering if they improved the position of the DC in jack (i.e. not behind the battery). My TM900 arrives Tuesday, all being well, so will know for sure then. I believe they've updated the bundled software (handling 60p etc.). Not sure I'll use that anyway since I use Vegas on PC and FCP on Macs but that might be important for some. Price differential between TM900 and TM700 seem a lot less here in the UK - we pay high price and high tax on both! I ordered my TM900 for £775 from a reputable dealer who sells cameras in the Bristol area - before they had stock. Now they have stock the price is currently £799 on their website. Generally, at the moment, TM700s don't seem to go for a lot less than this - from what I saw when I ordered my TM900 a week ago (again, reputable dealers only considered). __________________ Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production

February 13th, 2011, 02:04 PM	#7
Claire Watson Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Stocksfield, England Posts: 86	TM900 arrived yesterday My TM900 arrived Saturday, after all I read so far it is currently living up to my expectations. My main camera is an EX1R so this little feller gave me quite a surprise when I unpacked it, smaller than I ever realised! I got an hours charge into the battery and checked it out in the garden. I was only interested in it's 50P mode in manual operation, soon I started to see why the previous model was named a "giant killer". My main concern was would it suffer from the TM700's "Bondi Blue" sky/water? I breathed a sigh of relief when I found it not so. I am used to zebras, histogram, etc and hey they were there! Manual is a bit fiddly, cannot alter iris and shutter the usual way, alter iris and if you return to shutter iris does it's own thing, hmmm,, The stabiliser is simply breathtakingly good! When all three modes are on, there are times it's almost like being on a tripod. With 80% optical zoom, one arm leaning on a wall for extra stabilty , birds on a feeder, hardly any movement, wow! (I normally lug my huge and heavy Vinton AS around with the EX1R) The TM900's 50P footage edits like butter in Edius and plays as smooth as silk. This morning I found it works through my PS Media Server which I have installed on the computer. This connects the computer to my PS3 in the lounge, I was able to play through all the raw 50P clips while watching them on the Panasonic 42" Plasma. So far so good, am well impressed.. still reading the book though... __________________ Claire

February 13th, 2011, 03:08 PM	#9
Claire Watson Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Stocksfield, England Posts: 86	Whatever... __________________ Claire

February 11th, 2011, 11:12 PM	#2
Dan Carter Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona Posts: 366	With Vegas, these settings will do nicely: Format or Save as Type: Windows Media Video V11 (*WMV) Template: 6 Mbps HD 720-30p or 8 Mbps HD 1080-30p

February 12th, 2011, 12:19 AM	#4
Burt Alcantara Regular Crew Join Date: May 2010 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 55	Budget wise, the TM700 just squeaks in. The 900 is almost twice as much. As I am not a pro or do any paid work the 700 should be fine. Everyone here gives it rave reviews. My only concern was having hassles with the 60p but as you said it is because I am not familiar with that format. Thanks for the help, Burt

February 13th, 2011, 02:40 PM	#8
Kirk Candlish Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Southern, CA Posts: 198	"My main concern was would it suffer from the TM700's "Bondi Blue" sky/water?" Huh ? My TM700 works fine with the ocean and sky here in Southern California. It suffers no confusion about which side of the equator we're on. But then people wanked about the fan being loud in TM700s and I've never heard mine. Urban lore, gotta love it.

February 13th, 2011, 03:13 PM	#10
Andy Wilkinson Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 2,853	Hi Claire, so I'm dying to know. Where is the DC in socket on the TM900? __________________ Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production

February 13th, 2011, 04:16 PM	#11
Claire Watson Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Stocksfield, England Posts: 86	Hi Andy, following you has kept me informed about this camera, thanks for that... The DC socket is on the top right back corner of the camera (looking from it's rear), level with the viewfinder eyepiece, on the curved part of the body, there is a snap on'off rubbery cover over it. So it's easy to get to and of course no need to remove the battery but I think I would have preferred a charger that the battery sits in like my EX1R charger because at the moment the TM900 is out of action while the battery is charging. When I get more batteries to charge the camera will be out of action even longer! Hope your TM900 turns up on time. __________________ Claire

February 13th, 2011, 04:31 PM	#12
Andy Wilkinson Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 2,853	TM700 and TM900 batteries different Thanks Claire. Also, just so anyone reading this knows....I've just learnt (on another forum) that the TM900 takes DIFFERENT batteries to the TM700. Bit of a bummer really as I have a £80 high capacity one for a TM700 being shipped to me as I write (from Amazon). I took a "leap of faith" that it would be the same...why would it not be....how silly of me! [I now know/realise the marketing reason why of course]. Looks like that battery is going back unopened! Apparently, there are no supplies of the larger batteries for the TM/HS/SD 900 series yet available in the UK.... Just a short term minor inconvenience for me - but just posting this in case 700 series owners are thinking of geting a 900 series as a second cam and find this thread. Yep, you'll need a new set of batteries too! And finally my apologies to the OP, sorry Burt, we've all totally hijacked your thread about the TM700 and 60p editing! __________________ Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production

February 14th, 2011, 10:34 AM	#15
Burt Alcantara Regular Crew Join Date: May 2010 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 55	Well, since we're discussing batteries, is there any "truth" to decoding? I have a lot of after market batteries (read eBay) for my T2i. While they don't read to the "nth" degree, they let me know when it's time to change. Is this the same for the after market TM700/900 batteries? The diff in price is small but why spend more on something that does nothing? I don't mind the hijack since I've not put the cash down yet. The 900 looks nice but it is a serious bump in money, for me anyway. On top of that, I'm wondering if a camcorder market will exists in 3-5 years since the limitations of auto focus and IS are being slowly solved for the DSLR market. Unfortunately, everything will be obsolete then including all my Canon glass so perhaps I'm just a worry-wart. Burt