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Old March 14th, 2011, 07:28 AM   #46
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Re: Alan Roberts BBC report on the AF101

Thanks Andy, my missus has the same philosphy as Chris when I talk sometimes, so I can see the logic. :)
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Old March 14th, 2011, 09:55 AM   #47
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Re: Alan Roberts BBC report on the AF101

"I personally would rather use our much maligned HPX500 anyday than an EX1"

This is at the root of this discussion for me. When I bought my 500 ($30,000 with 16x9 finder and accessories) in 2007 I was assured it was a "future-proof" investment. I didn't think it was, and sure enough it's already not good enough.

I considered a 3100, but I'm a 60+ year old independent filmmaker, I don't "provide production services", rent stuff out, or sell my soul making corporate films, so I'm not spending that kind of money again.

So, I spring for an AF100. Lenses and accessories bought, money paid, haven't even received the camera yet (due later this week) and it is already considered not as good as the 500 I'm replacing.

You do get what you pay for, and you get it in the a__...
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Old March 14th, 2011, 10:18 AM   #48
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Re: Alan Roberts BBC report on the AF101

The old axiom; Buyer Beware applies to all purchases. That is why it is important for everyone to make sound "business" purchases. Not just based on resolution charts. While I'm selling my soul doing "corporate videos", I get to feed my family. I would rather produce,shoot, and edit productions for my clients that they accept and sometimes even like at a "reasonable" budget. I would trade shooting on a $5,000 camera for getting paid a good salary any day. Is that selling out? I know there a scores of people who would love to be in my position. I don't plan to ever to it for granted. Even if it means selling out a few lines of resolution.

I have yet to have any clients compare the final results of any of my productions to a resolution chart. :)

It's about the content, not the camera!!!

BTW, for those who want to shoot for the BBC, then go to a rental house and rent the appropriate camera. As a producer, you can write off the rental as an expense on your taxes.

Cheers.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 10:50 AM   #49
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Re: Alan Roberts BBC report on the AF101

"BTW, for those who want to shoot for the BBC, then go to a rental house and rent the appropriate camera."

I love comments like this. My last three films took about two and a half years apiece to shoot. You figure it out.

And I'm not denigrating people who make corporates, or shoot weddings for that matter. I, too, need to make a living - in fact have been doing so for over 40 years.

But I've paid my dues, and prefer the freedom of making my own films and owning my own equipment.

The AF100 was my choice this year, and I will live with it. But it is disappointing to read reports like this because other people read them too - like broadcasters and national funding organizations, and finishing fund grantors - and those are my "clients".
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Old March 14th, 2011, 11:07 AM   #50
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Re: Alan Roberts BBC report on the AF101

Here's some more comment on the AF 100

ProVideo Coalition.com: Stunning Good Looks by Art Adams

It basically sums up as the camera they personally would use instead of shooting with a DSLR - which is a pretty big market for Panasonic.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 11:11 AM   #51
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Re: Alan Roberts BBC report on the AF101

Steve,

I'm glad I don't have your clients or the BBC for that matter. Fortunately for me, all I have to do is please NASA.

Good luck.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 11:23 AM   #52
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Re: Alan Roberts BBC report on the AF101

I just purchased the af101 a couple of weeks back to use as a B camera to my PDW-700. Often I get a day to spend around cities like Hong Kong or Shanghai gathering footage, and I want to have something smaller to lug around. I have to say that some of the footage I recently shot in Singapore (I have a link to a video clip with some of the footage in an earlier thread) cuts in really nicely with the footage from my PDW-700 - which is judged as a top of the range 2/3 broadcast camera.

Basically, I am really happy with the picture from the camera - and it is so portable and a joy to use as well - I actually enjoy using it much more than my 700 - allbeit aside from the viewfinder. I really believe the camera produces lovely images - and clients never know what something has been shot on - they just want great images and represents what they want in the best light.

Sparky

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Old March 14th, 2011, 11:54 AM   #53
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Re: Alan Roberts BBC report on the AF101

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mercer View Post
Off topic: Can anyone tell me how to quote rather than reply from the last post?
It is possible. We just don't broadcast it. The trick is to use the multi-quote button
(the little " icon at the bottom right of any post), and then hit the reply button. Viola,
the last post is quoted... although it gets annoying if not used properly (but I know
you will use it properly, as you've already demonstrated). Hope this helps,
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Old March 14th, 2011, 12:58 PM   #54
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Re: Alan Roberts BBC report on the AF101

Thanks Chris I'll try not to abuse it if I can work it out :)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Rosen View Post
I considered a 3100, but I'm a 60+ year old independent filmmaker, I don't "provide production services", rent stuff out, or sell my soul making corporate films, so I'm not spending that kind of money again.
I do some of those things Steve as well as the other and I can't spend that kind of money in this climate. I had a great setup with SD, top of the line DVcam cameras decks, Avid/DigiBeta mastering, I just can't transition fully at that level into HD but I have to hang in there somehow for work. It's my fault because I'm in Spain not London where I worked for 20 years in broadcast but that is the reality. I wouldn't worry, I'm sure you're one of those that will make great stuff with the AF101 and I still love the HPX500. Similarly, I recently did a job in a far flung and potentially dangerous place and I did a lot of testing of DSLRs, NXCam newer stuff against my HD101. The JVC still comes out top in terms of picture quality and resolution but the glamour has well and truly worn off, it doesn't impress (these kind of) clients anymore, they want shallow DOF and new new new toys. I still use it for my own projects because I love the look, have developed a thorough workflow and it trucks on.

"BTW, for those who want to shoot for the BBC, then go to a rental house and rent the appropriate camera."

I love comments like this. My last three films took about two and a half years apiece to shoot. You figure it out.


I agree with Steve, David. It's doesn't work that way anyway, the camera/operator is hired by the production and they usually have to have their own gear. You can lose jobs faffing around hiring cameras and if your not familiar with them or they're not set-up right it's a hard ground to hit running.

I'm pleased you are making a good living doing corporates and it must be fantastic doing stuff for NASA, I am very envious, but I think we should not make defensive comments about other's work, we're all in this together. The point I was making wasn't one of "this is not a top of the line BBC camera therefore it's to be dismissed" I was just commenting that you get what you pay for, we have to be realistic; $6000 cams will never be as good as $30,000 cams, no matter how they big it up and that was the context of Alan's test. But it's a great tool, with some great ideas on it and I know guys like you will make it work and pay.

Aside from the picture quality discussion, the only thing I wish they would provide for a lot of these cameras (like the XF305, EXs and now AF101) standard IDX/Anton Bauer battery kits from the get go.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 02:32 PM   #55
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Re: Alan Roberts BBC report on the AF101

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glen Vandermolen View Post
Where did you get this info? We know next to nothing about the so-called FS100. We don't even know what it looks like, much less its resolution capabilities.
What we DO know about the forthcoming camera is that it will have the sensor of the F3, and be comparable in price to the AF101. For technical reasons, it's highly likely that much of the fundamental processing will also be similar to the F3, and it must be realistic to hope that in the most key respects it will have many of the best points of the F3.

Fundamentally, the F3 sensor uses an optimum photosite count for 1080p video - somewhere around 3-4 megapixel. The AF101 uses a sensor with many, many more - too many for reading them all at frame rate to be practicable in a camera at this price. We were told it got good results by "using a new, clever form of processing" - with no further elaboration. The results seem to show it's about what you'd expect from very basic processing, and I suspect it may be exactly the same as the GH2 uses. It would certainly be extremely interesting to see the 101 and the GH2 compared on the same zone plate.....

I also agree with comments about the 101 versus some Canon DSLRs. (Which are, after all, first and foremost still cameras.) Yes, it's better, no question. But it's not as good as we were led to believe by a big margin, and if the fundamental front end sensor and processing is the same as a GH2, why does it cost so many times more?

For anyone considering a purchase, the issue is far less how good or bad the 101 is in absolute terms, but if the NXCAM gives better results for the same money, why even consider the 101? And with many more details on the NXCAM due on the 23rd, waiting a few more days makes a great deal of sense.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 03:00 PM   #56
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Re: Alan Roberts BBC report on the AF101

Seems like the Sony F3 is also coming up with aliasing on zone plates so the FS100 may not be any better than the AF100

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/sony-xdc...irst-look.html

I'm more than happy with my AF102 - it produces more than acceptable pictures for it's price but it would be nice if Panasonic (& all other camera companies) would be more up front with the tech specs of their products.
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Old March 14th, 2011, 03:01 PM   #57
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Re: Alan Roberts BBC report on the AF101

Okay guys, this is just my opinion,

You guys are missing my point. Maybe things work differently in different markets. Before i was out here at JSC, I was a Producer/Director for two commercial production houses. For the most part,,,Nobody here owns their own 35mm or 16mm cameras, or even broadcast HD cameras. There are some great rental houses here in Texas, (some advertise on this very forum.) They provide great options. Here in Houston, most of the freelance camera ops and DPs don't own their own gear and have great relations with Producers and rental houses. If I were freelance I would not buy a camera over $8k. If anything because there are too many video formats out there to support. In fact, for certain budgets I would rent an AF100 from a rental house because they can customize a package, with the lenses and accessories i need.And, I can write off the expense from my taxes... as an expense. All I'm saying is there are options....

I feel for you guys pain,,,,but with all due respect....like i said....in the end....it is a "business decision" ...not a resolution chart decision.

Not being defensive,,,soul selling or not,,,,it is all about the money. No bucks,,,,no Buck Rogers.

The AF100 can be a great business decision and make very pretty pictures. And Alan Roberts has no bearing on that ...unless you let it be.

PEACE
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Old March 14th, 2011, 03:30 PM   #58
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Re: Alan Roberts BBC report on the AF101

I'm always on the lookout for compelling posts which really nail it
the right way, because they serve as perfect concluding statements
for threads which otherwise seem to go around in circles. David's
reply above suits that purpose perfectly. It underscores a crucial
fact that I've been trying to get across since I started this site ten
years ago, and that is: it's not about numbers. It's *never* about
numbers. Stop thinking in terms of pixels and lines, and try to start
thinking instead in terms of practical applications. Thanks all,
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