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Old July 23rd, 2003, 04:21 PM   #16
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Doesn't the PD100A have a wider lens or field of view that the TRV900? I seem to recall that but I'm not sure if this is true. Anyways, the controls on the TRV900 are very good, even has the low shutter settings. Tom mentioned it has a 5 blade iris which he thinks is better.

The field of view is good with the MX300 as well, plus frame mode to boot. No slow shutter speeds, though. That's why I'd rather pay Allan wednesday for a GS100 today.

The TRV900 is missing 70 horizontal lines of resolution; the MX300/350 is missing only 40. The MX5000 and black mamba, well, that's another storey. Click here:

http://www.dvfreak.com/mx5000ad.jpg

I had a big problem too some years back. I couldn't afford a VX2000 and couldn't decide between the TRV900 and MX300. (The PD100A was too much money.) So I went with the MX300. I'd rather have a MX5000 today, than spend a year's salary on something that'll be obsolete tomorrow. But if it were tomorrow today, I'd learn Japanese and get myself a black mamba.

I ran out of coffee last night. :(


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Old July 23rd, 2003, 08:03 PM   #17
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Wow, Chris- you're even almost as long-winded than I am; at this rate, we'll be out of New Boot status late in 2004!

""I'll take a new cam ANYDAY!" Tommy, I think most people would--if they could afford it, and get some of the features they feel they need.

"I wholeheartedly agree with Tommy; there are more than enough things to worry about as it is; why bring another big variable in like 'used' into it?" Charlie, you're right, too: You do need to "worry" about a used cam a bit. And ask questions, and judge the veracity of the answers you get. It's the price you pay for getting a usable camera within your price range."

Um, Chris- I've been buying used cams (although far from exclusively), with nary a bad one for many years, from 16mm to 35mm to 1 CCD to 3 CCDs, and, although I also subscribe to, and am quite adept at the procedure for successfully purchasing a used cam that you outline in your rather condescending post, I don't think it's the right deal for many people. Getting a refund or exchange on a bad one is actually paramount when you get such a cam from a seller. The seller's got to be reliably accountable for a prompt and professional remedy; most on eBay and the majority of other sellers of used DVcams are not. Adorama's one, and a local dealer or any trusted 3rd party whom you can hold accountable, without any wasted time/stress, is the only way to go, IMO, when purchasing used.

That said, and knowing the the TRV series VERY well, I'd say that it's not worth the risk for you to buy a used 900 when you can get a new, warranteed 953 instead. At the end of the day, the differences in footage and feature/build quality, despite all the 1/4" vs 1/6", etc. talk, are not enough to justify going used, unless the seller meets the above (fairly difficult to find) standard, IMO, and even then, the lack of a warranty, etc. is a definite consideration in favor of a new 953.

"And of course, new cameras are not immune from problems, right out of the box. Just recently there was the post by Ardash about a new 953 malfunctioning. Oddly, though the TRV900 is discontued at this point, there are examples of it out there that are pretty much pristine; people bought one and never got around to using it much (go figure that one out!)"

Yeah, that's why most folks buy new- so they can get a prompt exchange/refund from a dealer with the resources and rep to do just that. If you're implying that the TRV900's better built than the 953, I'd say no. As good a cam as the TRV900 obviously is, I've seen many, and I mean many TRV900s with a wide variety of problems; some were only used several times and stored properly, others took a beating at the hands of many students over years...time will tell with the 953, but it's built durably (with the exception of those darn 'mud flap' port covers!); and, again, time will tell. I'd suggest buying a new cam, any new cam, on a credit card that doubles or triples the Mfr's warranty-many cards do.

"Some of the TRV900s I've looked at, and almost bought (circumstances beyond my control prevented it, unforunately) have been sold by people from this forum. I trust them more than some others, simply because they are here. That shows me an interest, and a knowledge of issues, that makes me worry less about how they have treated their cameras, and how honest they are about the mileage on them. There are people who will read this that got their first cam through someone else here--used. Some of them no doubt, will have sad stories--but the majority will have been pleased with their purchases, I'll bet."

Hey, it's your money- bet where it'll do the most good for ya.

"As a matter of fact, all the cams I've used--the PDX-10, the PD150, a cheap JVC and a cheap Panny--were all the property of my local community college, and so, (well) used. They've been absolutely fine. And let's not forget rentals. Renting A/V equipment is a big business, and all of that equipment is used, too. You just buy a it for a short time...it's a little different, but you get the point. In fact, any camera that anyone is currently using is a "used" camera--and these are cameras that we know and trust and dearly love. (well, some of them...)"

"As Frank said, the TRV900 is a great cam. The fact that it sat on a shelf in someone else's home for a while and then took a trip in a box to me shouldn't change that. I personally can't understand wanting to buy something that doesn't fit my needs or budget simply because it is new. So for me, the "difference in capabilities" is a deciding point of consideration."

Who says that the 953 'doesn't fit your needs or your budget'? YOU'RE the one asking us, Chris! Ultimately, it's gonna be you call...If you want to REALLY depart from the small orbit of these two (TRV90 and PV-DV953) similar cams, maybe a used DVX100 would be worth the risk..now THAT's a cam with features and footage clearly superior to either cams under discussion!

"Presumably, there are those out there (I count myself among them) who treat their cameras well and gently, and aren't liars when it comes time to sell them. Some got tired of video and want to liquidate, some want to step up to a pricier camera. Some thought they'd actually *like* shooting weddings ;^)"

I think if you are patient and careful and do your research, and use common sense, you can make out just fine."

That's a pretty fast way to lose a lot of money, Chris. The fact that you CAN 'make out just fine' doesn't mean you WILL. And if something goes wrong, even using your 'preferred method' of thoughtfully purchasing a used cam, who's going to refund the money if the seller doesn't do the right thing?...as, just as presumably, 'there are those out there (I DON'T count myself among them) who DON'T treat their cameras well and gently, and ARE liars when it comes time to sell them.'...are YOU going to gladly eat the cost and 'chalk it up to experience' if the seller doesn't, do what's right, Chris? If so, great. If not, get the 953 and enjoy it; it ain't less cam than the TRV- just a different set of strong points, that's all.

Tommy and I are merely pointing out the reasons for playing it safe and making sure the prospective buyer, in this case you, editing footage after the purchase instead of re-saving your money, this time for a NEW cam, from a reputable dealer, with the resources and the inclination to refund/exchange on demand from a buyer.

If I come across as 'ranting, I'm sorry...too much coffee and not enough sleep is a lifestyle I've gotta move past!
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Old July 23rd, 2003, 09:46 PM   #18
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That's what I get for not re-reading the thread starter's post, eh?

Sorry about (my) apparent confusion...Chris, it's your money, your roll of the dice...I'd just add that anyone else reading this thread, and specifically your post about buying used cams, needs a rebuttal to balance their read...

Whatever you do with YOUR money, good luck with the purchase, new or used! From what you say, I'd assume that you're leaning towards the TRV900, a fine cam and one with which I'm certain you'll be happy...at least you've heard it from all sides, and so has anyone reading for the purposes of considering new vs. used as well.

Good luck and enjoy, Chris!
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Old July 23rd, 2003, 09:54 PM   #19
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Tommy--how did you get that great price from B and H? Did you have to talk them down to it, somehow? When I checked their site, they list it at $2,175. Tell me something about the process you went through to get it at your price!

Great deal!! I'm jealous--a very cool little camera. Wish it had a handle on top, though... :^(

Charlie--yes, I can be a little long-winded at times, I'm afraid. When time permits, I prefer being clear and writing my thoughts out more fully than most, it seems. My emails read more like letters. And I guess some people might think my writing style is "rather condescending"--sorry if it comes off that way, it's not intended to be.

I won't go point-for-point on your dissection of my post (he says to cheers from the assembled throng) but a few things stand out.

First of all, I appreciate the feedback. I'm happy to hear that you have a long and successful track record buying used equipment--it's true when you say that 'used' is not the way to go for a lot of people. It's not--many people aren't savvy enough, afraid/unable to ask the right questions. I've bought a lot of guitars--all of them used (an area where "used" actually equals "better", frequently) and I have found that it's important to quiet that voice in the back of my head with solid information, or walk away fast if I can't.

I wasn't implying that the TRV900 is built better than the 953. I was simply saying that all things are susceptible to failure, new or used. The 900 has a good track record as a sturdy cam, and that counts for something with me. It *does* seem more solid (more metal) than the 953--who knows what that means in 3-5 years? The 953 looks great, too--it's the only other camera on my list (unless I hit the Lotto). Also, I was trying to say that I find it personally odd that anyone would have a camera and not really use it--but people do, God bless 'em! just a matter of finding them, not an easy thing--but they are also some of the ones most interested in selling what has become a usless piece of depreciating electronics.

Refund/repair/replace issues are very important. No doubts there. A real plus for the 'new' route. No arguments there.

"Who says that the 953 'doesn't fit his needs or his budget'? ", you asked. I do, or at least I reserve the right to. The statement was just about my needs and wants, not anyone else's. I started this thread to gain some information about the 2 cams...they fit my needs, and budget, most closely. I'll leave it to others to decide for themselves what they need, or can afford.

Thanks.
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Old July 23rd, 2003, 09:56 PM   #20
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Posts crossing in the night.

Thanks Charlie.
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Old July 23rd, 2003, 10:15 PM   #21
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And after I edited the first one after my (corrective) post, too! Man. I've gotta get some sleep...

Best of luck and kind regards, Chris!
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Old July 23rd, 2003, 10:34 PM   #22
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Better send that coffee to Frank! He ran out...

:^)

By the way--I went and actually clicked on one of those "Send Me A Better Price" links at B and H for the PDX-10--and they quoted $1,995, as opposed to the posted $2,175. Don't know why I've never thought about doing that before...it always seemed kind of odd, I guess--like I'd have to end up haggling or something. Or get more spam. So that solves that question, at least partially--so how did Tommy go from $1,995 to $1850, shipped?

Mesmerism, maybe!

Seriously, Tommy, I'd be curious to hear something of your dealing with them. Thanks!
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Old July 23rd, 2003, 10:40 PM   #23
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Chris,

B&H has a "email me a better price" link under the price and that will yield an instant price of $1995.

To get the $1850 price I called with every intention on getting the PDX10 regardless of haggling.

I start off by asking if he can see if there are any open box specials on the PDX10 as its out of my budget at their asking price. That lets him know that I know exactly the cam I want and that his $1995 price is too high for me. He says there are no open box specials but if I purchase on the phone right then that he can sell it for $1850. There was actually $20 shipping but I used my PayPal debit card which landed me an instant cash back bonus of $28.04. Of course it might depend a lot on who answers the phone but thats why someone invented redial. :)

I declined a few low pressure sales pitches for warranty and accessories and I was done.

I'm glad that my month long cam search is over. I had originally planned just to upgrade from my DV953 to the GS100 but my cam budget increased enough to consider the PDX10.
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Old July 23rd, 2003, 10:58 PM   #24
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Congrats on your PDX purchase Tommy!


I'm now having my first cup of coffee---cheap from Super Store. :)
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Old July 24th, 2003, 09:21 AM   #25
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Thanks Frank.

Looks like it wasn't my powerful skills of persuasion that got me the $1850 price.

IT WAS A THREE DAY SALE! too funny.

read about it here

http://www.dv.com/forums/showReplies...&tid=101700011

Sale ends today judging by the post.
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Old July 26th, 2003, 07:38 AM   #26
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Well, I've done it. Call me crazy. Go ahead, call me crazy. I'll wait right here.

I read Tommy's post about the special at B & H and, after much feverish thought, bit the bullet and bought a PDX-10. It was a completely painless, no-pressure sale. $1850, plus S & H of less than $20. I called them at about 6:30pm on the 24th (they close at 7) whioch shows you how I put off the decision until the last minute!

So Tommy, I think maybe they owe you some sort of commission, and I owe you a big "Thank you".

The purchase ran counter to what my budget was telling me, but I figured it was going to end up being a few more credit card payments, so I just did it, and put myself out of my misery.

Thanks to all who helped with this process!
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Old July 26th, 2003, 08:33 AM   #27
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Nothing like going over budget!

Congratulations on the PDX10 purchase.

Here is a link for a free LCD hood from Sony!

http://bssc.sel.sony.com/Professiona...pdx10hood.html

Sony brochure on the PDX10

http://bssc.sel.sony.com/Professiona...pdx10final.pdf

Large photos of the PDX10

LARGE
http://bssc.sel.sony.com/Professiona...dsrpdx10_z.jpg

SUPER-SIZED
http://w3.studiotech.hu/studiotech/h...DSR-PDX10P.jpg

Photo lifted from Japanese manual :)
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-.../pdx10wide.JPG
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Old July 26th, 2003, 10:24 AM   #28
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PDX-10 Question!

Hey Tommy:

Is the PDX-10 a smaller form factor than the DV953. The dimensions of the DV953 are 105/8"X51/8"X81/2" and the dimensions of the PDX-10 are 8"X4"X3". it seems smaller than the DV953. Is that true? I heard it was not as easy to handle as a hand held camera but one can get used to it from one of the reviews I read. How about the weight, they also say it's much heavier nearly one pound which I'm sure it is because of it's construction. Can you easliy throw this in a backpack or something and go.... I'm not interested in the XLR block right now, but understand there are built in stereo mic below the lense. How about camera noise? Gee all these questions!!!!

I know you were considering the GS100 and I was wondering why you decided to go with the PDX-10 now.... I know your budget increased, but were there other factors.

I'm obviously curious about the form factor as mentioned and how this camera compares to your previous DV953. I heard there NO manual iris control on the Sony ...is that true? Is it top loading, there was no information on that. I would appreciate your input since my DV953 order is "still on backorder" and you have experience with that camera as well. My plus is I know someone who can get me the PDX-10 as I work in television as you'll recall.

Thanks.... Rick.
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Old July 26th, 2003, 10:26 AM   #29
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opps .... probably wrong forum heading for this ... sorry gang!
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Old July 26th, 2003, 11:14 AM   #30
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Thanks Tommy--I'm glad you're around. I remember seeing that LCD hood promotion somewhere a while back, and dismissed it because there was no way i was going to get a PDX-10...pretty funny.


Rick, I haven't used the 953, but I've used a PDX-10 pretty extensively. I do wish it had a handle on top, I think I'll fabricate some elegant solution to that. It IS a chunk--very solid to my touch, dense if you will. I like that. I have hand held it for hours, off and on, and it was OK. The dimensions you refer to might be the cam alone without the attachments, don't know--but the XLR adaptor, microphone, lens hood and a battery all add to it's size quite a bit. it works out pretty well, I think. Balance is not too bad--at least it didn't bother me.

It would go in a backpack fine. Heavier than a 953, but hey, it's about the weight of the water bottle I usually carry.

I never noticed any camera noise at all, really. Didn't do any supercritical testing--it was weddings and short film shoots, etc. but it seems quite quiet.

It is top-loading.

The manual iris thing has been debated some in here. My take is this: you can control the iris, it's just done differently than some are used to. Do a search of the forum with the keywords "PDX-10 iris" ad you'll get a whole lot of info. Or go right to this post....
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...ght=PDX10+iris

Hope this helps until someone else comes along
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