Excessive drop outs at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > Panasonic P2HD / AVCCAM / AVCHD / DV Camera Systems > Panasonic DVX / DVC Assistant > Panasonic DV / MX / GS series Assistant

Panasonic DV / MX / GS series Assistant
...and other Panasonic DV camcorders.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 2nd, 2003, 01:01 PM   #1
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Aus
Posts: 3,884
Excessive drop outs

okies, heres the situation....

Im just interested on your thougths on this.

huge wedding...
5 hours long..

2 cams rolling non stop (DS88 with a raynox 0.5 wideangle and MX500)
10 Hours total footage

I was using Pana DVM60 tapes, NOT pre-wound but fresh out of the packet. Not the dry type, but the standard consumer type (the ony ones you can find in Oz less than 10 bux each)

Some history of the cams-
DS88. Been thru the wars, done afew weddings to get me going and (knock on wood) still going strong. bout 300 hours all up. Never had an issue. Doubles as PC capture and backup deck for DVX.

MX500 less than a year old. Lots of corp work, 2 weddings, lots of testing and learning camera routines. bout 200 hours all up. Some dusty (im in Aus... )fiilming with v8's and 4wd's as well as gettin afew knocks. Still goin strong.

I HARDLY clean the heads (Of both) as im paranoid as head cleaners are abrasive.. so i only use them just before a big shoot. I then run a tape for 10 minutes each then record another 10 mins of colour bars to get the lube back.

I am METICULOUS with my equipment, so just dont touch my synths.. LOL
okies to the point...

Now the DS88 is having slight audio visual drop outs.
Visually certain areas of the screen have a second or so (if not shorter) of jitter, shake and pixelation.. maybe even jaggies.
On this cam, its more apparent later in the evening after much use, but more of that later.
Audibly, its about a quarter note or drumbeat or about quarter of a second wher the audio drops out completely. This is ok coz its cam b so its not much of an issue...

The MX, DOESNT have visual dropouts (where in the past it DID after we went out in the dust) however it IS experiencing some more of the abovementioned audio dropouts, however its happening more regularly but in shorter durations.

Now from here, im thinking this is a tape issue and head cleaning issue.
heres why

1) Tapes werent wound prioer to filming. Tape Tension or lube adhesion and particles may be a factor.

2) Hot sweaty environment

3) Cams DID NOT STOP. they only stopped to change tape or for travel.

4) I have used tapes over and over and this HASNT happened to those preused tapes. it only happens to new fresh ones...

5) I dont think Pana would make a head so weak as to die when treated with a head cleaner considering that the DS is a consumer cam and the MX is a ProSumer which means thered be alot of novices out there using head cleaners after every second tape...

6) The heads were cleaned on all cams teh night before, but only for about 10 seconds each

Now the point.. well i dont think i have one.. well maybe i do, i know theres now way to get this footage back and its not detrimental, but there have been lots of talk of the DVX experiencing these drop outs...

Now i know most new cams experience these drop outs as theyre virginal and havent been lubed yet (that comment was deliberate.. sorry im in on of those moods)
So what im doing is a little test with the DVX...
Im recording colour bars on an old tape. Then im gonna do the same with a fresh tape unwound. if there are dropouts, im sure the DVX would feel them considering the talk on dropouts (i havent seen any on this unit yet thou.. so...)

Has anyone else experienced constant drop outs?

If so what conditions were your tapes and heads in?
Were they wound? Fresh? Dry or wet type? Did u clean the heads? Did u run a tape right after?

Please tell us as this could be a way to figure out any behavioural trends with the way DV cams work, as i know ALL cams have these drop outs, only in different conditions.

Basically what im trying to do is build a list of conditions which these Pana Heads like and dislike.

The sony and canon people can do theyre own.. The fact that i have 3 different models is a good start, so im sure there are alot of other people out there who use multiple cams so lets hear from them.

maybe the mods can sticky this or something...

Okies results in

-->DVX (has NEVER had a head clean yet 2 hours use)-
USED TAPE
DVM60 wet type
PreUsed tape <second recording>,
SP,
48khz,
15 minutes colour bar
= 3 instances of white pixelation distortion.
about 1/64th size of the screen.
random position.

FRESH TAPE
DVM60 wet type
Fresh and UnWound
SP
48khz
15 mins colour bar
= Nothing. No distortion.

MX500 and DS88 tests to follow


Now remember these 10 tapes mentioned above were also fresh ... so that could only leave the heads.. or does it?
.... and maybe a slight bad batch of lube on a couple of tapes...?
or conditions?

Who knows.. but in this game we cant afford to take a gamble...

can u imagine filming someones wedding or comedy routine and your tapes decides to start dropping?

If we can figure out the OPTIMAL head cleaning ratio per condition, and determine tape and condition preparation prior to filming, maybe we wont get these drop outs.

hmm....

so this is a strange conundrum we face... its the most common, but i would like to see some other results.
It wont take long and you can do it while you browse the net:)

Id really like to see the GS100 and some other older cams.

yes its late and im waiting for a render to finish so i thought why not..

I look forward to seeing some other results!
Peter Jefferson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 2nd, 2003, 03:30 PM   #2
Outer Circle
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Hope, BC
Posts: 7,527
You just use 1 brand/model of miniDV tape?

I had a similar problem some years back. I only used the cheap-o JVC miniDV tape. I'd clean the heads but the problem would come back. When I switched to Fuji miniDV tape, the problem was solved.

http://www.dvfreak.com/tape.htm
Frank Granovski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3rd, 2003, 06:48 AM   #3
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Aus
Posts: 3,884
yeah mate, only 1 brand & model...

thing is, MQ tapes are stupidly expensive, and i dotn trust anything else.

I thougth about Fuji, but apparently Pana tapes are made by Fuji... Wouldnt surprise me if theyre lower grade though...

Im still tryin to find a good cheap tape supplier, i go thru these liek water :(
Peter Jefferson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3rd, 2003, 07:04 AM   #4
Outer Circle
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Hope, BC
Posts: 7,527
Yes, I keep hearing about the high cost of miniDV tape Down-Under. Their prices must be controlled or something. I don't know what to say. You've cleaned the heads, stuck with one type/brand but the drop-outs are there. It's either cr**y tape, or something's going on with the heads.


---------------------------------
I'm sleeping on the couch tonight! :(
Frank Granovski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3rd, 2003, 09:08 AM   #5
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Aus
Posts: 3,884
u know, from the looks of it, its a tape issue as the DS never had this problem until recently.
And its not an ongiong thing either, its only when i havent maintained the tapes...

or if the heads are hot with fresh tapes...

so it looks like everything is a factor in everything... :(

oh well, i was hoping as a group mindset we could pull our experiences together and figure out what that everything was
Peter Jefferson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3rd, 2003, 07:14 PM   #6
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 210
Peter, U didnt mention

WHICH TAPE U WERE USING ALL THE TIME(SAMEBRAND/MODEL LIKE U MENTIONED)

We want to know which tape gives that kind of trouble, atleast in ur case.
Samuel Raj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3rd, 2003, 07:21 PM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 210
is it PANASONIC DVM60EJ OR EX OR PQ OR MQ,

there are so many varieties.

I TRUST THE GREAT TDK DVM60ME

Thats cheapie tooo, u can walkin to costco and get 6 for 25 bucks.

In fact I compared the specs of both panasonic and fuji,
The same 5 layers....., may be better than Fuji or panasonic, who knows.


TDK comes in one flavor, not like ej,ex,pq,mq etc. etc.

LOL, so many TDK 'praises'...
Samuel Raj is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > Panasonic P2HD / AVCCAM / AVCHD / DV Camera Systems > Panasonic DVX / DVC Assistant > Panasonic DV / MX / GS series Assistant

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:42 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network