Tdk,fuji,pana Tape Analysis For Gs100k
 

I already posted in accessories page, but thought it is appropriate to start with separate topic.

Wanted to do R&D on different tapes and their characteristics and their effect on GS100.

TDK tape technical specs:
TDK
http://www.tdk.com.au/products/cam...minidv_dvm.htm

Fuji Tape
http://www.fujifilm.com/JSP/fuji/...bin/MiniDV.pdf
The above Fuji link is for DVM80 not for dvm60. I dont know whether dvm60 has all those features. There is no link, I could find to describe about dvm60


This is for panasonic MQ series. (THIS IS NOT THE EJ,EX,PQ ETC)
http://www.pvnb.org/MQ_Tape%20Formulation.pdf

I am a trustworthy user of TDK.

Please post ur comments and experiences and the tape u were using!

I am using pana tapes.

But as a first time user, dunno on what parameters to rate/compare it.

what are the typical attributes that one should watch out for? Maybe I can post my experiences on these attributes, rating, and experiences.

theres a very interesting and enlightening thread on wide lenses started by Boyan Dob. Hopefully this one on tapes will also have knowledgeable and experienced folks writing in.

I've never had problems with Fuji miniDV tape. I only use the 1 hour ones. I can't comment on other brands other than JVC. When I first bought my first miniDV cam, a JVC, I used JVC (a 1/2 hour JVC tape was included in the cam box, so I bought more JVC tape). To make a long tragic story short, I had nothing but clogged heads from this tape. No amount of head cleaning solved the problem. Once I switched to Fuji, I never had these problems, and I never had to clean my heads again. I still have the JVC head cleaner, but when I tried to use my new Panasonic head cleaner, I got an error message. The Pana cleaner wouldn't work. So at least JVC make head cleaners that actually work. I don't see the logic in switching to another brand of miniDV tape, because it's just fine; and here in Vancouver, Fuji are about the same price as TDK, Maxell and other inexpensive tape. And, it's not a good idea to mix tape brands and types within the brand.

In my 1st MX300 cam, I only used Panasonic tape. A Pana tape cam in the box, so I bought more and used them. I never had problems with the tape, but I have since parted with this cam as a gift to a family member.

I've used all sorts of tape brands with other cams, cams I used to shoot with for other people. From what I recall, I only had problems when the cam owners mixed brands. And most cam owners do this because they buy what's cheaper, and they don't know any better, or so it seems to me.

On another note, I read somewhere that 90 min miniDV tape uses a thiner tape stock than 30 min and 60 min tape, so the 90 minute stuff is not as robust. I've never used the 90 min tape because I don't like to take unnecessary chances when I shoot. :)

technical details of TDK
 

standard
http://www.tdk-asia.com/products/camcorder/dvm.php

Master

http://www.tdk-asia.com/products/cam.../dvmmaster.php

Master’s features (4,5,6 applies to mini dv starndard also)
http://www.tdk-asia.com/products/cam...dvmmaster2.php

will post when I find further articles about FUJI and Pana

great.
 

Good to hear that the Pana tapes shold be reasonably OK.

I just got a deal on 20 new ones for $60 us...

Panasonic PQ series is Wet

Panasonic MQ series is dry

I saw in some forum, some Pana technical manager recommends MQ than the PQ.

So, Pana MQ is the best in the panasonic tape, remaining tapes are just standard tapes.

Even the EJ EX LP Plus etc series are Wet and dry, i.e EJ has both wet and dry and like ex also. So you have to stick to only one type, EJ wet or dry.

When I go thru all those articles, I can find, TDK standard has some what close to MQ series.

I also see lot of praises for TDK in some of the forums as well as some forums dont recommend TDK.

Even some forums recommend Fuji and somebody faced lot of problems on the FUji also.

The bottom line is stick with only one brand. It doesnt matter, Fuji, or Pana EJ wet or dry or TDK or maxel, but JVC ALWAYS had negative feedback in every other forums.

A LARGE NUMBER OF FORUMS KEEP INSIST TO USE THEIR FAVORITE BRAND RATHER, NOBODY GAVE AN UNBIASED REPORT.

ITS LIKE CHOOSING A WIFE, SELECT ONE BRAND AND STICK WITH IT FOREVER! LOL, SO LOT OF PEOPLE RECOMMEND THEIR WIFE TYPES TO EVERYBODY!!!

The knowledge I got from all the forums as wellas from spec articles suggest some of these brands are good to stick with.

These are the best ones.
TDK, Pana MQ, Fuji,

if ANY ONE COULD FIND WHETHER TDK AND FUJI WET OR DRY TYPE, IT WILL BE GREATLY APPRECIATED.

Try to avoid JVC, MAXELL, SONY, and other pana ej, ex, etc..

So how do I tell?

Is the AY-DVM60EJ tape wet or dry?

I can't find anything about wet/dry on the tape itself, the shrinkwrap or the box.

From the little I could find on the web:
If the cassette is white and the flip cover is blue, it's dry.

I have black cassettes with a blue flip cover...

Update: I was looking through all my SLR and miniDV gear (yes, I have 3 bags full), and stupid me! Since I've been using Fuji miniDV for so many years, and haven't had to clean my heads since I switched to Fuji, for reason I thought that the head cleaning tape was a JVC. IT'S NOT!!! It's a Canon miniDV head cleaning tape! (Just goes to show you how I never had to clean my heads in my JVC cams since I switched. How many years? Almost 5 YEARS!!!)

http://www.dvfreak.com/tape.htm

Strange that no one talks about Sony tapes here.

I use the cheaperst, most basic 1 hour Sony MiniDV tapes on my MX8 and MX350. Absolutely no problems and I have tapes used and played back about 20 times with no noticeable loss. And I clean my play head once a month to be ritualistic. I use the Panasonic dry cleaning tape.

There was a time when I used Panasonic (I believe that was the dry type). I had to clean head every week or two due to drop-out losses, which comae from head clogging!

In Singapore, the Sony tapes are wrapped in red packaging and is numbered 3DVM60.

I haven't heard anything bad about Sony brand tapes for a while, except for a thread on the camera forum at dv.com. He mentiones that he uses Pana, Fuji and Sony tapes, and that the Sony tape has "dropped pixels." Could it be because of the big No-No? (never mix 'er tapes) :)

The pana tapes that I bought appears to be different.

The packaging says 'metal series'. Each tape has "ME" clearly written on it, and the bottom of the package it says

"AY-DVM60DA3W"

The A3 is for each tape with markings AA, AB, and AC (because its a 3 pack).

Question: Is this a new series "ME" or is it part of the EJ, QJ, PQ or MQ series?
Are these tapes better/ good?
or should I shift over to MQ?

That's another reason I stick with Fuji. They only make 1 kind of miniDV tape.

(Sorry I couldn't answer your question. Perhaps someone else can.)

Thats Right, like Fuji, TDK also has one variety.

Pana just confuses the consumers, by releasing a lot of choices, and they themselves asking not to use pq or below. Now they (Pana top technical president, i guess) insist to use MQ.

Thats why I stick with TDK(Its cheaper too).

I hear you. TDK makes 1 type, and that's it. And if it works fine for you, great! But there are those who seem to buy this one and then that one, because it's cheaper, and then with another one, and back with the first one---breaking the 1 most important rule: don't mix brands and types within the brand.

All DV tapes are ME – that means ‘metal evaporate’ and doesn’t have anything to do with the MQ master tape (which is also ME). DV format is written on ME tapes only, normal Metal tape is insufficient.

Well, for the different markets the brands are marketing different variety.

Here in Japan there are:
TDK – 2 types – standard (3 colors) and master
Panasonic – basically 3 types – standard, master and colorful design series – 3 types (slightly lower specs than standard)
Fuji – standard (white) and master
Victor (JVC) – standard, Pro and colorful variations
Sony – standard, master and colorful variations

In fact only Fuji and TDK doesn’t make variety of colors and transparent tape shells. I haven’t seen their master tapes in my local stores though.

At www.adamwilt.com there is good tape related article. There is stated that both standard and master Pana tapes are DRY. Only Sony seems to be wet.

WOW, I have been using wet tape, and cleaning the heads with a dry tape cleaner... never knew that! :)

But no side effects after almost a year of VERY constant and heavy use. But the moment a Panasonic dry tape pops in, the cemra chokes after a few hours of head time. Hmmm... strange that Panasonic cam can't use Panasonic tapes effectively!

I've never had to use the cleaner in my MX300 which I still have (the first one I gave away). However, before my last wedding or funeral (can't recall), I thought I'd clean the heads on one of my other cams. Well, I unwrapped the Pana head cleaner (that came with the MX), and put it in my cam. Beep, beeb, beeb---it wouldn't work! I removed it, shut the cam off, took out the battery, waited (had a smoke), then went and tried it again. Beep, beep, beep. Darn. Still wouldn't work. Oh, no! I thought, my cam's finally broke! Then I popped in the Canon head cleaner, and amazingly, it worked like a charm. (I can never find a Fuji head cleaner. It seems you can't get them here.)

I've never seen a wet miniDV cleaning tape? Are people just assuming that the manufacture of wet tapes make wet cleaning tapes? Or are people looking at the cleaning tape wrapper and if it says dry, assume it is for dry tapes?

Bogdan, Fuji actually makes some of those colorful ones as well. That's the reason why the wife decided to shift from Sony to Fuji...she liked the Fuji colors better.

Jeff, I haven't seen one either, but I believe Sony makes one.

Allan, thanks for the correction - Fuji have 5 color standard tapes (dated 2001.9.1) but I couldn't see master tape in their Axia home page.
I also posted not very detailed link for the tape comparison - me myself couldn't find what I thought is there - sorry about that. I'll post new link when I found it.

Now just for the record. On the Japanese TDK home page you can see comparison charts of their standard and master tapes (look at the botom).
What comes out is slightly better signal of the master but most important is the chart for the pause (still) mode. It seems that the magnetic layer is worn out for just 5-7 minutes on the standard tape while the master sustains for over 60 min.
How about that? Presuming that every stand by is in fact pause (the head is in contact with the tape) that might lead to very bad things if you don't switch of the cam while not in use. The auto switch of is after about 5 min, so just before your tape breaks. Hmmm...

http://www.tdk.co.jp/tjbbd01/bbd28000.htm

P.S. You will need an online translator if you want to read the Japanese text.

Frank, I'm not 100% sure, but in the cleaning tape industry, wet vs. dry refers to the use of a wetting agent, not the type lubricant etc. you're trying to clean. In other words a wet cleaning tape would have you apply a liquid to a reservoir or pad inside the cleaning tape (like the old audio cassette wet cleaning tapes). Dry cleaning tapes are used without any additional liquids, dry.

I have a friend that was a manager for a very large, national tape distributor. Several years ago I had him look in his product catalog for a wet cleaning tape and none of the manufactures he carried (Sony, Panasonic, Fuji, Maxell,) listed a part number to order a wet cleaning tape. However, they all listed cleaning tapes. When he checked the inventory in his warehouse, they all said dry cleaning tape on the wrapper.

Just a thought........

Wet tapes and humidity, coild there be a relation between these two when my camera

Drip signal appears (condensation warning) and asks me to take the tape out and wait three hours

Its so stinking wet and hot here in Tokyo and the Aircons are so dry and cold...your glasses fog up when you walk outside...

Although the dry tape is states obviously better and I will choose a brand and stick to it from when I decide....but besides that do you think that in the relation of wet tape and this warning problem that the dry tape would assist!

Any thoughts,

cheers,

Lincoln

Lincoln, I've got my messages for Drip while using TDK 'dry' tapes.

In fact 'dry' or 'wet' is nothing you can see just looking the tape. These are very fine particles layerd over the tape for lubricant purposes. 'Wet' is most likly to use special chemical, and 'dry' similar chemical but in poweder condition.

In both cases you can swear there is nothing on the tape - you just can't see it with bare eye.

Wet and dry has nothing to do with ambient weather conditions

That's Jeff. However, the Pana head cleaner I have says, for dry lubricant based miniDV, or something like that. Anyways, I've got a Canon head cleaner, and I'm sure it's going to last me another 5 years (thanks to Fuji miniDV tape). :):):)

PS: the Pana head cleaner won't work in the cam. I just keep it in my bag to remind me of Pana's tape quality. :):):)

Thanks Bogdan, I am clear now.......Cheers

Bogdan,

Thank you for your insightful comments.

Therefore, what I gather is since all pana tapes are created using 'metal evaporation' technique, whether it is EJ, EX, PQ, or MQ, they should have the same performance characteristics.

(unless there's a quality difference that is effected by slower or faster rate of metal deposition on the tape by varying the speed of the tape during the manufacturing process).

So, is this in disagreement with what Samuel came across at?
http://www.pvnb.org/MQ_Tape%20Formulation.pdf
"This is for panasonic MQ series. (THIS IS NOT THE EJ,EX,PQ ETC)"

This is what happens when you don't use Fuji miniDV tapes:

http://www.adamwilt.com/pix-defects.html

:):):)

Amit

Panasonic's PQ and MQ series use S-AME (Super Advanced Metal Evaporation) technology, as it was described in that Pdf file.

Most of the tapes use the ME technology, inlcuding TDK, Pana other series, Fuji.

Samuel,

Thanks for correcting me.
I should have gone over that doc in greater detail :)

cheers,
Amit

Links to info
 

I found the link sumarizing some info on the lubricants and tape types:

http://www.hosannaproductions.com/ti...ubricants.html

basic information with useful links: http://www.dvfreak.com/tape.htm

Check out espesially the 'tape cleaning article' : http://multimedian.com/pcv/school/camcare.html