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Panasonic DV / MX / GS series Assistant
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Old December 5th, 2003, 08:56 PM   #1
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PV-DV852 - great price!

Dummy up! Tommy just sent me this e-mail!

I've been looking at EVERY cam the last week or so since selling the Xi and I can't believe the price on the Panasonic PV-DV852 at B&H. They have five in stock and that would be the perfect cam for Alex.

For that price I could pick up a used MX3000 and a brand new DV852 for the price of a black mamba. Mind boggling.

It finally dropped to freezing the other morning and the cheeks are all hibernating. :-(

B&H price for PV-DV852 is $569 USD!

B&H - http://www.bhphotovideo.com
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Old December 6th, 2003, 03:58 AM   #2
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Re: PV-DV852 - great price!

<<<-- Originally posted by Frank Granovski : Dummy up! Tommy just sent me this e-mail!

I've been looking at EVERY cam the last week or so since selling the Xi and I can't believe the price on the Panasonic PV-DV852 at B&H. They have five in stock and that would be the perfect cam for Alex.

For that price I could pick up a used MX3000 and a brand new DV852 for the price of a black mamba. Mind boggling.

-->>>

Today I got a mail from Onecall, offering the Panasonic PVGS70 for $659.44.

Is that camera any good?

Looks very much like the 953, though probably stripped from several things. Optical stabilization looks like one.

Another idea that has been coming into my mind lately is that I will need some device to play my tapes onto my computer, and maybe this camera might be it.

How does it compare with the 953?


Carlos
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Old December 6th, 2003, 04:22 AM   #3
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The PV-DV852 is way better than the PV-DV400, and almost as good as the PV-DV953.
Quote:
I will need some device to play my tapes onto my computer, and maybe this camera might be it.
So you already have a miniDV cam? Use it, then, to upload your miniDV tapes into your computer. If you need a cheap deck, why would you want a GS70? Get something cheaper, like an old ZR20. That's all you need.
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Old December 6th, 2003, 01:20 PM   #4
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This was the deal I think I was waiting for!

I've been on the fence whether I should go for the GS70, DV953, or GS100 for quite some time. Problem is, the price vs. features never quite meshed for me for any of them.

I'm convinced that tapeless high-end comsumer cameras are only a couple of years away from being cheap mini-DV beaters. This camera I believe should be a great one, and my last one ever with a tape!
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Old December 6th, 2003, 02:14 PM   #5
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<<<-- Originally posted by Frank Granovski : The PV-DV852 is way better than the PV-DV400, and almost as good as the PV-DV953.-->>>

My question intended to be really whether the GS70 was as good as the 953, in this case for a much lower price.

<<<-- So you already have a miniDV cam? Use it, then, to upload your miniDV tapes into your computer. -->>>

No, I don't have one yet. My decision is not yet taken, perhaps waiting until something more gets to influence and get the balance one way or the other. No doubt money to be invested is a very important factor.

<<<-- If you need a cheap deck, why would you want a GS70? Get something cheaper, like an old ZR20. That's all you need. -->>>

No, I wasn't looking for a cheap deck. In fact one thing I learnt from my recent DV shootings, where I had some problems with a borrowed Canon GL1, was that playing back "problematic" recordings (in this case from that Canon) was not up to most brands. Only Sony cameras or decks seemed to re-construct that recording and provide an usable output.

That would be a matter I would like to listen other DV makers too: the best way to play your tapes. Is this my experience with this tape a common one? Which equipment works better playing
anything that comes their way?

I would also appreciate some answer to my original question too: how does the GS70 compare with the 953?


Carlos
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Old December 6th, 2003, 04:52 PM   #6
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Now that the GS70 is around $650 USD I think its a great value but its lack of OIS and a high resolution 16:9 mode have me looking elsewhere.

The DV953 also has four advanced functions not found on the GS70.

1. manual audio
2. zebras
3. color bar
4. manual sharpness and color

You can go to www.onecall.com and download manuals for both the GS70 and DV953 and find more differences like the DV953 has a f1.6 lens while the GS70 has a f1.8.

I really enjoyed my DV953 and unless you need the smaller size of the GS70 I say the price difference is well worth the upgrade in features and performance.
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Old December 6th, 2003, 05:24 PM   #7
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<<<-- Originally posted by Tommy Haupfear : Now that the GS70 is around $650 USD I think its a great value but its lack of OIS and a high resolution 16:9 mode have me looking elsewhere.

The DV953 also has four advanced functions not found on the GS70.

1. manual audio
2. zebras
3. color bar
4. manual sharpness and color

You can go to www.onecall.com and download manuals for both the GS70 and DV953 and find more differences like the DV953 has a f1.6 lens while the GS70 has a f1.8.-->>>

The lens aperture (just an 1/8 stop less) or the size are not that important.

But all the others really are. It's a lot to lose for that money saved.

<<<--I really enjoyed my DV953 and unless you need the smaller size of the GS70 I say the price difference is well worth the upgrade in features and performance. -->>>

Just curious. You said "enjoyed": don't you have a 953 anymore? What do you have now?


Carlos
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Old December 6th, 2003, 05:35 PM   #8
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Tommy, don't be shy. It's time for your cam list again. I tried looking for it but couldn't find it. Carlos, the GS100 is less of a cam than the PV-DV953, along with lower resolution. It wouldn't be a good cam for DV to film transfers. You are still planning this, right?
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Old December 6th, 2003, 06:35 PM   #9
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Frank has hinted at my sickness of upgrading cams. I really enjoyed the DV953 but decided to move on up to the PDX10 for an even better 16:9 mode which is my primary concern when selecting a cam these days. I downgraded a bit from the PDX10 after I learned about Digital SLR and recently bought the Canon 10D.

Digital Cameras:

Kodak DC280
Olympus D510
Olympus C-700
Sony DSC-F707
Sony DSC-F717
Canon Digital Rebel
Canon EOS 10D

Camcorders:

TRV120
VX2000
MX1000
Optura Pi
GR-DVL9000U
VL-AX1U
PV-DV953
VL-NZ55U
PDX10
Xi

The next cam is probably going to be the black GS100k.

BTW - thats over the last two years. Sadly there are no support groups for people with my condition..
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Old December 7th, 2003, 03:47 AM   #10
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Carlos, I don't think the GS70 is all that hot. The PV-DV852, now there's a cam! It's good in lower light, good controls, low noise, and built solid. The PV-DV852's playback resolution is 530 lines! It's about twice the size of the GS70.
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Old December 7th, 2003, 09:21 AM   #11
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The 852 has optical stabiliser, the gs70 has digital stabiliser.

The 852 is a low light winner (1 lux), the gs70 is worse than the mx500.

The 852 has one ccd, the gs70 has three.

I used to own the MX8 (PAL of the 852), I would use the gs70 for home videos and tours (the small size and weight is really cool).

As far as I know, Panasonic cams plays back recording from Canon (I have used XL-1 and the consumer models), Sony (PD-150, VX2000, and consumer models), Sharp (consumer models) and Panasonic, of course. But all these in SP mode. A little drop-out experienced on the XL-1 on LP mode.
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Old December 10th, 2003, 12:38 AM   #12
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Ordered mine the day this thread started and should arrive Wednesday. Hopefully it will cure the case of "upgrade-itis" I've acquired. [ha!]

Bob
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Old December 10th, 2003, 01:01 AM   #13
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Smart man, Bob! For that price, you can't go wrong!
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Old December 10th, 2003, 04:57 AM   #14
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Playing defective tapes

<<<-- Originally posted by Yow Cheong Hoe :
As far as I know, Panasonic cams plays back recording from Canon (I have used XL-1 and the consumer models), Sony (PD-150, VX2000, and consumer models), Sharp (consumer models) and Panasonic, of course. But all these in SP mode. A little drop-out experienced on the XL-1 on LP mode. -->>>


The question I raised is not for being able to play back a DV tape recorded on any machine, which all should.

But what happens when a certain tape, recorded at SP, has problems. Will the player recover the information and correct the deffects?

This is not theory: I faced such situation. Unaware of potential problems that may arise when you use different DV tape brands, I spent a whole day shooting some interviews with a borrowed Canon GL1 far away from home. My mistake was not having reviewed the tapes on location, believing I was protecting the tapes from dropouts. The tapes were Sony types.

When I came home and reviewed the tapes. After 10 minutes play, the problem I described like "moving puzzle" started. Blocks of image started moving up and down. Two passes of cleaning tape didn't help.

To make it short: only Sony equipment would play the tape fine from then on. Namely a PD150 camera, a DSR11 player and a DSR40 player. A Panasonic DV2500 player refused to play the tapes without doing the "puzzle effect".

So I wonder if Sony equipment isn't using some recovery routine when playing DV tapes on their machines.

About using slower recording speeds like LP, I think it would be foolish paying all that money for a sophisticated equiment like DV953 or MX500 and get lesser quality. Perhaps it would be useful in situations when you don't care for the quality and are worried because of the tape duration. But I wouldn't advise it for quality work.


Carlos
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Old December 10th, 2003, 06:02 AM   #15
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Carlos, you got dirty heads. That's why you saw the "moving puzzle"...Blocks of image started moving up and down.

http://www.dvfreak.com/tape.htm

Why are you using Sony tape? What kind of Sony tape?

I've played back tape shot with a number of cams in Pana cams without problems.

Use good tape (and 1 brand/type) and don't contaminate them.
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