Panasonic NV-GS400/NV-GS100/AG-DVC30 Comparison footage

Peter Jefferson · July 27th, 2004, 08:17 AM

err.. the top ones are in hqx format while the widescreen ones are in mpg..

any ideas on seeing the hqx??

Peter Jefferson · July 27th, 2004, 08:43 AM

hmm.. the DVC30 footage looks horrible.. by the mush of colours to the resolution it seems that some setting or WB config has set it to a warm ugly bright overexposed orange.. detail is non existant and theres something seriously wrong here..

as for the GS400, it looks stunning, nice dark contrasts a lil under exposed, great detail.. but.. something about it just doesnt cut it.. i dunno...

thx for puttin them up;)

Kaku Ito · July 27th, 2004, 10:00 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Peter Jefferson : hmm.. the DVC30 footage looks horrible.. by the mush of colours to the resolution it seems that some setting or WB config has set it to a warm ugly bright overexposed orange.. detail is non existant and theres something seriously wrong here..

as for the GS400, it looks stunning, nice dark contrasts a lil under exposed, great detail.. but.. something about it just doesnt cut it.. i dunno...

thx for puttin them up;) -->>>

As far as the brightness, I had to set it to be able to see what's happening in the woods, not set to the bright part. I kept it that way since I was not going to do any adjusting in the software. For real world usage, I would shoot little darker, and adjust the brightness in the software.
Something about GS400, what I notice is that it looks little green. That is what I think wrong with default GS400.

Erik J. Sturcke · July 27th, 2004, 04:28 PM

Looks good Kaku. Thanks!

I noticed some blue fringes on the GS400 esecially between the leaves and the sky on the right. There was less of that with the DVC30, but then it just looked a little washed out. Overall, the GS400 looks very impressive. Is there any reason to get a DVC30? Is it possible to get the DVC30 to look better by adjusting the setting on the camera and maybe the levels in post.

I am asking because i need to get a camera very soon and i was thinking about the DVC30, but now i am uncertain.

Kaku Ito · July 27th, 2004, 06:32 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Erik J. Sturcke : Looks good Kaku. Thanks!

I noticed some blue fringes on the GS400 esecially between the leaves and the sky on the right. There was less of that with the DVC30, but then it just looked a little washed out. Overall, the GS400 looks very impressive. Is there any reason to get a DVC30? Is it possible to get the DVC30 to look better by adjusting the setting on the camera and maybe the levels in post.

I am asking because i need to get a camera very soon and i was thinking about the DVC30, but now i am uncertain. -->>>

Erik,
If you don't do anamorphic shooting, DVC30 is better to shoot, because of more control over the parameters. Each one has its own forte, GS100 is the smallest and lightest but still offers hi-res anamorphic, DVC30 has very useful multi-function ring with simultenous control over parameters (not as much as other pro-cams, though) and GS400 has the mixture of good points of both, but lacking few features. If you describe how you want your cam to work and myabe I can suggest.

Erik J. Sturcke · July 27th, 2004, 08:08 PM

Thanks for your time Kaku,

We are looking for a camera that has good manual controls that we can grow into. The stuff we have been doing up to now is mainly documentary/interview style stuff and some motion graphics stuff with video componets. But we would also like something that can have a more dramatic feel, so we am interested in frame mode.

Size of the camera does not matter much. 16x9 sounds attractive, but i think it is not needed for what we will do.

We will work with the footage in Premiere and After Effects and the output will be to DVD and then presented on an LCD projector.

The price we were looking at is around $2000, so the DVC30 fits nicely. We were also looking at the VX2100.

We need to get it very soon, so we might not be able to wait for the gs400, i just want to make sure we are not sorry with what we got right after getting it.

Kaku Ito · July 27th, 2004, 09:04 PM

Erik,

You should see the actual product for you to decide but, if you don't care to do 16:9, then DVC30 might be suitable for you.

Since you do interview, DVC30's line-ins will be handy for you to connect condensor microphones or lines from a mixer or other line lever sources. PDX-10 has this feature, too. DVC30's frame mode would give you a lot finer frames than interlaced video, so if you want to slow the speed in the edit, eash frame would be higer resolution and this is important when you use projector to show which is always a challenge for DV cam format (I found that setting a little bit of unsharp mask would help for projector use).

Nice feel and dynamic zoom work you can get out of DVC30's multi-function ring would give you good control for your documentary shooting. This is refered from my experience in using Canon XL1, which has too slow manual zoom ring (i tried the original lenz only), VX1000 which has rather heavy feel, DSR-PDX10 which has no manual zoom ring and NV-GS400 which the multi-function ring with heavy feel. Among all of them, I like the feel and effect of DVC30's multi-function ring. Some pros might say, the response is not as direct, but this gives you the same kind of behavior like the panning on Vinten tripod. Smooth start with no wubbling, and automatic smooth stop, so the video gets very nice and usable.

Haven't tried much of VX2100, so I can't compare with it, but since I found that shooting with frame mode is finner than deinterlacing later with the software, to shoot with frame mode is very valuable so, to me, DVC30 would be my choice over any sony cam.

But make sure you make your dicision by actually feeling and seeing.

Hope you make a good decision.

Erik J. Sturcke · July 27th, 2004, 10:02 PM

Thanks again. The DVC30 seems like a good fit. I would like to try them out, but the authorized dealers i called around here don't have any to try out, they have to order them.

Aylwin Cal · July 28th, 2004, 08:56 AM

Hi, been out of the DV scene for awhile. But then this cursed GS400 pops up. So, is there any verdict yet on how much better (if at all) it is compared to the GS100? Is it worth upgrading? Can someone please give me a quick rundown on the main advantages of over the GS100 (aside from the 4 mega pixels ;))?

By the way, it looks like Panasonic are being nice to everyone this time. They've released the GS400 globally at the same time, right? At least I saw it on display already last week in Singapore.

Kaku Ito · July 28th, 2004, 09:14 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Aylwin Cal :Is it worth upgrading? Can someone please give me a quick rundown on the main advantages of over the GS100 (aside from the 4 mega pixels ;))? -->>>

If you want to manually control zooming or iris with the ring, it is the new feature on GS400 and not on GS100. It is called multi-function ring. Video quality wise, you can see some improvement on wide mode for sure. But if you like the smallness and the lightness of the GS100, GS400 is bit larger (I would say thicker) and heavier.

Oh, the new mode dial, I don't know this is good or not. When I was shooting on my bike (kinda like on-board) by grabbing in my palm, my wrist hits the dial and it was changing the mode. It happened few times.

Aylwin Cal · July 28th, 2004, 02:57 PM

Thanks for the reply! I find that practical info is always more helpful than simply a specs comparison. I only shoot in wide mode so that might be a consideration for me.

I've only seen the GS400 twice (again yesterday at Eiden) so I didn't immediately notice that it's bigger since the shape is the more or less the same. Now that I have my GS100 in my hand, yeah, I notice now that the GS400 was bigger and heavier. That's not necessarily a disadvantage though. I guess I'll have to make many trips to the store to play with it some more. :)

I also noticed the mode dial. There were at least 4 modes compared to 3 on the GS100. But I guess only the first 2 are important for me. Once thing I immediately noticed with the GS400 in my hand is that I prefer the grip of the GS100. The GS100 has the nice rubber on top for your fingers. If I remember correctly, it was all plastic on the GS400.

Good work on the comparison! I'll need to take a closer look at the shots when I have more time. By the way, have you noticed any improvement in low light shooting? This is also an important one for me.

Thanks,
Aylwin

Rokta Bija · July 28th, 2004, 05:13 PM

Kaku,

Some people on Camcorderinfo are saying the GS400 has some barrel distortion in the viewfinder when zoomed all the way out. Do you notice any?

Kaku Ito · July 28th, 2004, 06:55 PM

Aylwin, the grip part you talking about IS ruber but with different engraving, so GS400's might feel a little stiffer. I have some footage at shot at night, so please wait. I will post them in a while.

Rokta, it might look like the center is coming up toward you a little. But it could look like it because the eges are little darker? When I zoom out all the way, by shooting 120 inch white screen, the edges of the screen seem to be correct, not really warped.

July 27th, 2004, 08:17 AM	#16
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	err.. the top ones are in hqx format while the widescreen ones are in mpg.. any ideas on seeing the hqx??

July 27th, 2004, 08:43 AM	#17
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	hmm.. the DVC30 footage looks horrible.. by the mush of colours to the resolution it seems that some setting or WB config has set it to a warm ugly bright overexposed orange.. detail is non existant and theres something seriously wrong here.. as for the GS400, it looks stunning, nice dark contrasts a lil under exposed, great detail.. but.. something about it just doesnt cut it.. i dunno... thx for puttin them up;)

July 27th, 2004, 10:00 AM	#18
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	<<<-- Originally posted by Peter Jefferson : hmm.. the DVC30 footage looks horrible.. by the mush of colours to the resolution it seems that some setting or WB config has set it to a warm ugly bright overexposed orange.. detail is non existant and theres something seriously wrong here.. as for the GS400, it looks stunning, nice dark contrasts a lil under exposed, great detail.. but.. something about it just doesnt cut it.. i dunno... thx for puttin them up;) -->>> As far as the brightness, I had to set it to be able to see what's happening in the woods, not set to the bright part. I kept it that way since I was not going to do any adjusting in the software. For real world usage, I would shoot little darker, and adjust the brightness in the software. Something about GS400, what I notice is that it looks little green. That is what I think wrong with default GS400.

July 27th, 2004, 04:28 PM	#19
Erik J. Sturcke New Boot Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 15	Looks good Kaku. Thanks! I noticed some blue fringes on the GS400 esecially between the leaves and the sky on the right. There was less of that with the DVC30, but then it just looked a little washed out. Overall, the GS400 looks very impressive. Is there any reason to get a DVC30? Is it possible to get the DVC30 to look better by adjusting the setting on the camera and maybe the levels in post. I am asking because i need to get a camera very soon and i was thinking about the DVC30, but now i am uncertain.

July 27th, 2004, 06:32 PM	#20
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	<<<-- Originally posted by Erik J. Sturcke : Looks good Kaku. Thanks! I noticed some blue fringes on the GS400 esecially between the leaves and the sky on the right. There was less of that with the DVC30, but then it just looked a little washed out. Overall, the GS400 looks very impressive. Is there any reason to get a DVC30? Is it possible to get the DVC30 to look better by adjusting the setting on the camera and maybe the levels in post. I am asking because i need to get a camera very soon and i was thinking about the DVC30, but now i am uncertain. -->>> Erik, If you don't do anamorphic shooting, DVC30 is better to shoot, because of more control over the parameters. Each one has its own forte, GS100 is the smallest and lightest but still offers hi-res anamorphic, DVC30 has very useful multi-function ring with simultenous control over parameters (not as much as other pro-cams, though) and GS400 has the mixture of good points of both, but lacking few features. If you describe how you want your cam to work and myabe I can suggest.

July 27th, 2004, 08:08 PM	#21
Erik J. Sturcke New Boot Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 15	Thanks for your time Kaku, We are looking for a camera that has good manual controls that we can grow into. The stuff we have been doing up to now is mainly documentary/interview style stuff and some motion graphics stuff with video componets. But we would also like something that can have a more dramatic feel, so we am interested in frame mode. Size of the camera does not matter much. 16x9 sounds attractive, but i think it is not needed for what we will do. We will work with the footage in Premiere and After Effects and the output will be to DVD and then presented on an LCD projector. The price we were looking at is around $2000, so the DVC30 fits nicely. We were also looking at the VX2100. We need to get it very soon, so we might not be able to wait for the gs400, i just want to make sure we are not sorry with what we got right after getting it.

July 27th, 2004, 09:04 PM	#22
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	Erik, You should see the actual product for you to decide but, if you don't care to do 16:9, then DVC30 might be suitable for you. Since you do interview, DVC30's line-ins will be handy for you to connect condensor microphones or lines from a mixer or other line lever sources. PDX-10 has this feature, too. DVC30's frame mode would give you a lot finer frames than interlaced video, so if you want to slow the speed in the edit, eash frame would be higer resolution and this is important when you use projector to show which is always a challenge for DV cam format (I found that setting a little bit of unsharp mask would help for projector use). Nice feel and dynamic zoom work you can get out of DVC30's multi-function ring would give you good control for your documentary shooting. This is refered from my experience in using Canon XL1, which has too slow manual zoom ring (i tried the original lenz only), VX1000 which has rather heavy feel, DSR-PDX10 which has no manual zoom ring and NV-GS400 which the multi-function ring with heavy feel. Among all of them, I like the feel and effect of DVC30's multi-function ring. Some pros might say, the response is not as direct, but this gives you the same kind of behavior like the panning on Vinten tripod. Smooth start with no wubbling, and automatic smooth stop, so the video gets very nice and usable. Haven't tried much of VX2100, so I can't compare with it, but since I found that shooting with frame mode is finner than deinterlacing later with the software, to shoot with frame mode is very valuable so, to me, DVC30 would be my choice over any sony cam. But make sure you make your dicision by actually feeling and seeing. Hope you make a good decision.

July 27th, 2004, 10:02 PM	#23
Erik J. Sturcke New Boot Join Date: May 2004 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 15	Thanks again. The DVC30 seems like a good fit. I would like to try them out, but the authorized dealers i called around here don't have any to try out, they have to order them.

July 28th, 2004, 08:56 AM	#24
Aylwin Cal Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Tampere, Finland Posts: 38	Hi, been out of the DV scene for awhile. But then this cursed GS400 pops up. So, is there any verdict yet on how much better (if at all) it is compared to the GS100? Is it worth upgrading? Can someone please give me a quick rundown on the main advantages of over the GS100 (aside from the 4 mega pixels ;))? By the way, it looks like Panasonic are being nice to everyone this time. They've released the GS400 globally at the same time, right? At least I saw it on display already last week in Singapore.

July 28th, 2004, 09:14 AM	#25
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	<<<-- Originally posted by Aylwin Cal :Is it worth upgrading? Can someone please give me a quick rundown on the main advantages of over the GS100 (aside from the 4 mega pixels ;))? -->>> If you want to manually control zooming or iris with the ring, it is the new feature on GS400 and not on GS100. It is called multi-function ring. Video quality wise, you can see some improvement on wide mode for sure. But if you like the smallness and the lightness of the GS100, GS400 is bit larger (I would say thicker) and heavier. Oh, the new mode dial, I don't know this is good or not. When I was shooting on my bike (kinda like on-board) by grabbing in my palm, my wrist hits the dial and it was changing the mode. It happened few times.

July 28th, 2004, 02:57 PM	#26
Aylwin Cal Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Tampere, Finland Posts: 38	Thanks for the reply! I find that practical info is always more helpful than simply a specs comparison. I only shoot in wide mode so that might be a consideration for me. I've only seen the GS400 twice (again yesterday at Eiden) so I didn't immediately notice that it's bigger since the shape is the more or less the same. Now that I have my GS100 in my hand, yeah, I notice now that the GS400 was bigger and heavier. That's not necessarily a disadvantage though. I guess I'll have to make many trips to the store to play with it some more. :) I also noticed the mode dial. There were at least 4 modes compared to 3 on the GS100. But I guess only the first 2 are important for me. Once thing I immediately noticed with the GS400 in my hand is that I prefer the grip of the GS100. The GS100 has the nice rubber on top for your fingers. If I remember correctly, it was all plastic on the GS400. Good work on the comparison! I'll need to take a closer look at the shots when I have more time. By the way, have you noticed any improvement in low light shooting? This is also an important one for me. Thanks, Aylwin

July 28th, 2004, 05:13 PM	#27
Rokta Bija Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 61	Kaku, Some people on Camcorderinfo are saying the GS400 has some barrel distortion in the viewfinder when zoomed all the way out. Do you notice any?

July 28th, 2004, 06:55 PM	#28
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	Aylwin, the grip part you talking about IS ruber but with different engraving, so GS400's might feel a little stiffer. I have some footage at shot at night, so please wait. I will post them in a while. Rokta, it might look like the center is coming up toward you a little. But it could look like it because the eges are little darker? When I zoom out all the way, by shooting 120 inch white screen, the edges of the screen seem to be correct, not really warped.