Panasonic NV-GS400/NV-GS100/AG-DVC30 Comparison footage at DVinfo.net

Kaku Ito · July 26th, 2004, 01:49 AM

A lot of you already have seen these but I sorted out the information along and posted it in my blog.

If you want to let other people know about it, go ahead and use this link.
Please do not give the direct links to the files, so it looses the explanations.

Also, please feel free to leave some comments at the bottom of the blog posting. If you don't, I feel like just doing it for myself and make me look kinda lonley(lol). The blog has some Japanese posts, but most of the posts are in English, so don't be shy even if you see the Japanese articles.

http://homepage.mac.com/kakuito/blog...115/index.html

Kaku Ito · July 26th, 2004, 09:03 AM

Now I used GS400 and GS100 to compare psuedo-progressive and interlaced footage. The result was very interesting.

If you have objection the way I treated these footage, please give me your suggestion.

30p & 60i comparison footage
http://homepage.mac.com/kakuito/blog...350/index.html

Mark Hilton · July 26th, 2004, 10:52 AM

I am curious as to everyone's opinion on the video comparisons. I played the files in VLC, and honestly thought the GS100 looked better. It seemed to be brighter? Is there any reason for this? Am i not viewing these correctly?

In the comparison, with the GS100 footage and the GS400 footage side by side, the GS100 seemed brighter, and colors seemed more vivid. Any thoughts?

Patricia Kim · July 26th, 2004, 01:22 PM

On my computer, I found the gs100 footage very, very close to that of the gs400. But I think Kaku is recommending burning a dvd and then playing back the footage on your television. For most people that's where the footage will ultimately be viewed, and that's the real test. Haven't done it yet, but I will eventually, even though I am not really in the market for a new cam and would actually be most interested in footage shot inside in normally lit, evening conditions.

Marius Burz · July 26th, 2004, 01:45 PM

I find the DVC30 to have the brightest image.
If you look at the tree leafs in the background you will notice the overexposure, an intense lime.
On the computer I am having a hard time to discern between the 3 except for the brightness and the camera position.

If someone could point out the details to recognize the better one, please do it :)
(BTW, I never said I am pro)

Mark Kubat · July 26th, 2004, 05:59 PM

I saw little difference in these clips when watching on mpeg2 viewer on the computer.

But then I burned to DVD and I saw the light.

What I mean, is that the GS400 looks amazing - better than the rest.

People, you have to burn the DVD to appreciate the differences.

Rokta Bija · July 26th, 2004, 06:09 PM

I just viewed the interlaced and deinterlaced side by side 400/100. I used PowerDVD to view the image full screen.

The 100's image is overexposed compared to the 400 so it is brighter, but colors are oversaturated. The sky is white on the 100. The 400 shows some blue and some extra detail in the sky. Overall the 400's color looks more realistic to me.

The 400's shaprness is really surprising considering it was shot in 30P and it is not true progressive and yet it looks as sharp as the 100 which was shot in 60i.

The deinterlaced image from the 100 showed lots of stairstepping on the top of the fence, the railings, and the stripe.

As far as the 30/400 matchup, I couldn't see the difference in 4:3, but the 400 was superior in 16:9.

Thanks for your work Kaku.

Kaku Ito · July 26th, 2004, 06:27 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Mark Hilton : I am curious as to everyone's opinion on the video comparisons. I played the files in VLC, and honestly thought the GS100 looked better. It seemed to be brighter? Is there any reason for this? Am i not viewing these correctly?

In the comparison, with the GS100 footage and the GS400 footage side by side, the GS100 seemed brighter, and colors seemed more vivid. Any thoughts? -->>>

Yes, it is hard to recognize the resolution difference when they are playing. And you are right, GS400 set it self darker when you put it in the procinema mode. I will adjust the brightness manually next time. I guess panasonic sets the procinema mode darker than regular video mode, because if you see over exposure on procinema, it makes less film like(?). But the result is that you seem to get more gradation on middle light range. In this side by side comparison, you will see GS100 having a lot more contrust and with interlace, moving object moving smoother.

My conclusion about shooting mode so far is that, I will shoot fast moving object with interlace mode when I will edit the footage with the original speed for the smoothness and more action to be captured and played back. Then if I know I will make the footage edited to be slow motion, I will shoot in the procinema mode since each frame would have finer resolution and it looks more pleasant.

Another fact is that when you are shooting in frame mode, if your camera work is not steady, it will look very shaky. May be it is because "OIS" does not work as good as Sony's stabilization, but frame mode makes it less stable, so if I'm on a vehicle shooting something, I would put it on interlace.
If GS400 had slower shutter speed, you might be able to get around with slower shutter speed, but you will get not as clear image (more bluring is introduce because of the slower shutter speed), but sometimes it is a nice effect espacially for gliding by kind of image.

Allan Rejoso · July 26th, 2004, 07:33 PM

Can't stay away from this site even during my vacation, and even through remote access :-)

Great job Kaku! SUGOI DESU NE!!!

I think another interesting comparison would be between the GS400 and the GS100 shooting under exactly the same mode. (procinema x procinema, widescreen interlaced x widescreen interlaced, normal interlaced x normal interlaced).

Because for those who haven't used the GS100, it's procinema exhibits a similar "darker" footage with jerky movement compared to interlaced, that's why personally, I prefer interlaced shooting (widescreen) for my home videos. Of course, brightness can be manually adjusted to one's preference. But I would certainly be very curious to know if there is any recognizable difference between the GS100 and GS400 under the same shooting mode. Another Jap mag reviewer commented that the GS400 gave the impression of a "cleaner" look compared to the GS100, that is, less edge enhancement artifacts due to its tweaked Crystal Engine. Samples frames grabs of the same scene taken using the GS400 and the GS100 seem to prove his claim.

Many thanks!!!

Kaku Ito · July 26th, 2004, 07:38 PM

Thanks, Allan.

Did you see the first link? The first link has the shot comparison at the same mode. Check'em out.

I do actually have the interlaced comparison. So I will post them later.
Only mistake I made when I did the test shooting is that when I shot 4:3 comparison of the three cams, I mistakenly left the DVC30 at 4:3 and movie-like (I intended to do interlaced with no special gamma). So, I did the other shooting in front of my house. I upgraded my dotMac disk space to 500MB, so I can put several other clips.

I was looking at the access analisys on my page and surprised to find that most of you are windows users. What are your impressions about Mac?

Allan Rejoso · July 26th, 2004, 07:42 PM

O yeah Kaku, sorry I went straight to the second link. When you're not using your own PC, you tend to rush things. :-) I'll check out the first link later, hopefully after dinner.

Kaku Ito · July 26th, 2004, 10:11 PM

Allan,

no problem. I though I should post a different thread for the second one and now I know I should have. I will organaize better for the next time.

Now I'm sending the comparison file of 400@30p/pdx10@60i/100@60i and 400@30p/pdx10@60iDI/100@60iDI (DI stands for deinterlaced). Do you think I should post a seperate thread, so everybody stricktly respond for that particular subject?

Patricia Kim · July 26th, 2004, 10:31 PM

Kaku, you should post a new thread that says something like 7/26/04 (or is it 27 where you are?) Update on 100/400/dvc30 Comparison Footage. Start by telling everyone what the rules are for viewing, what the files contain, that they may have to unzip files, and then post the link. Makes it easier for you and for all who want to view. Esp. important if you want everyone to understand that they need to respect your rights to the footage.

Kaku Ito · July 26th, 2004, 10:38 PM

oops. I already posted the new thread and I was thinking exactly like what you said. Thought about the rights and stuff but now it is too much for me to sort out my rights and stuff, so I just superimposed the url. as long as someone doesn't use it to do anything wrong or modify it.

It's hard for me to put the rights and disclaimer in second language. Do you have anyting that I can copy (public domain) from?

<<<-- Originally posted by Patricia Kim : Kaku, you should post a new thread that says something like 7/26/04 (or is it 27 where you are?) Update on 100/400/dvc30 Comparison Footage. Start by telling everyone what the rules are for viewing, what the files contain, that they may have to unzip files, and then post the link. Makes it easier for you and for all who want to view. Esp. important if you want everyone to understand that they need to respect your rights to the footage. -->>>

Patricia Kim · July 26th, 2004, 10:45 PM

Sorry, Kaku, I don't have any language. What about posting a general notice on your web site itself that all rights are reserved? Also, in the business forum of dvinfo there are probably folks who can help direct you to what the general language is that is used.

July 26th, 2004, 01:49 AM	#1
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	Panasonic NV-GS400/NV-GS100/AG-DVC30 Comparison footage A lot of you already have seen these but I sorted out the information along and posted it in my blog. If you want to let other people know about it, go ahead and use this link. Please do not give the direct links to the files, so it looses the explanations. Also, please feel free to leave some comments at the bottom of the blog posting. If you don't, I feel like just doing it for myself and make me look kinda lonley(lol). The blog has some Japanese posts, but most of the posts are in English, so don't be shy even if you see the Japanese articles. http://homepage.mac.com/kakuito/blog...115/index.html

July 26th, 2004, 10:52 AM	#3
Mark Hilton Tourist Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: NY Posts: 4	Comparison footage GS100/GS400 I am curious as to everyone's opinion on the video comparisons. I played the files in VLC, and honestly thought the GS100 looked better. It seemed to be brighter? Is there any reason for this? Am i not viewing these correctly? In the comparison, with the GS100 footage and the GS400 footage side by side, the GS100 seemed brighter, and colors seemed more vivid. Any thoughts?

July 26th, 2004, 05:59 PM	#6
Mark Kubat Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 375	you must burn DVD to appreciate fully. I saw little difference in these clips when watching on mpeg2 viewer on the computer. But then I burned to DVD and I saw the light. What I mean, is that the GS400 looks amazing - better than the rest. People, you have to burn the DVD to appreciate the differences.

July 26th, 2004, 06:27 PM	#8
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	Re: Comparison footage GS100/GS400 <<<-- Originally posted by Mark Hilton : I am curious as to everyone's opinion on the video comparisons. I played the files in VLC, and honestly thought the GS100 looked better. It seemed to be brighter? Is there any reason for this? Am i not viewing these correctly? In the comparison, with the GS100 footage and the GS400 footage side by side, the GS100 seemed brighter, and colors seemed more vivid. Any thoughts? -->>> Yes, it is hard to recognize the resolution difference when they are playing. And you are right, GS400 set it self darker when you put it in the procinema mode. I will adjust the brightness manually next time. I guess panasonic sets the procinema mode darker than regular video mode, because if you see over exposure on procinema, it makes less film like(?). But the result is that you seem to get more gradation on middle light range. In this side by side comparison, you will see GS100 having a lot more contrust and with interlace, moving object moving smoother. My conclusion about shooting mode so far is that, I will shoot fast moving object with interlace mode when I will edit the footage with the original speed for the smoothness and more action to be captured and played back. Then if I know I will make the footage edited to be slow motion, I will shoot in the procinema mode since each frame would have finer resolution and it looks more pleasant. Another fact is that when you are shooting in frame mode, if your camera work is not steady, it will look very shaky. May be it is because "OIS" does not work as good as Sony's stabilization, but frame mode makes it less stable, so if I'm on a vehicle shooting something, I would put it on interlace. If GS400 had slower shutter speed, you might be able to get around with slower shutter speed, but you will get not as clear image (more bluring is introduce because of the slower shutter speed), but sometimes it is a nice effect espacially for gliding by kind of image.

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July 26th, 2004, 09:03 AM	#2
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	Now I used GS400 and GS100 to compare psuedo-progressive and interlaced footage. The result was very interesting. If you have objection the way I treated these footage, please give me your suggestion. 30p & 60i comparison footage http://homepage.mac.com/kakuito/blog...350/index.html

July 26th, 2004, 01:22 PM	#4
Patricia Kim Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Posts: 453	On my computer, I found the gs100 footage very, very close to that of the gs400. But I think Kaku is recommending burning a dvd and then playing back the footage on your television. For most people that's where the footage will ultimately be viewed, and that's the real test. Haven't done it yet, but I will eventually, even though I am not really in the market for a new cam and would actually be most interested in footage shot inside in normally lit, evening conditions.

July 26th, 2004, 01:45 PM	#5
Marius Burz Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: romania Posts: 52	I find the DVC30 to have the brightest image. If you look at the tree leafs in the background you will notice the overexposure, an intense lime. On the computer I am having a hard time to discern between the 3 except for the brightness and the camera position. If someone could point out the details to recognize the better one, please do it :) (BTW, I never said I am pro)

July 26th, 2004, 06:09 PM	#7
Rokta Bija Regular Crew Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 61	I just viewed the interlaced and deinterlaced side by side 400/100. I used PowerDVD to view the image full screen. The 100's image is overexposed compared to the 400 so it is brighter, but colors are oversaturated. The sky is white on the 100. The 400 shows some blue and some extra detail in the sky. Overall the 400's color looks more realistic to me. The 400's shaprness is really surprising considering it was shot in 30P and it is not true progressive and yet it looks as sharp as the 100 which was shot in 60i. The deinterlaced image from the 100 showed lots of stairstepping on the top of the fence, the railings, and the stripe. As far as the 30/400 matchup, I couldn't see the difference in 4:3, but the 400 was superior in 16:9. Thanks for your work Kaku.

July 26th, 2004, 07:33 PM	#9
Allan Rejoso Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 569	Can't stay away from this site even during my vacation, and even through remote access :-) Great job Kaku! SUGOI DESU NE!!! I think another interesting comparison would be between the GS400 and the GS100 shooting under exactly the same mode. (procinema x procinema, widescreen interlaced x widescreen interlaced, normal interlaced x normal interlaced). Because for those who haven't used the GS100, it's procinema exhibits a similar "darker" footage with jerky movement compared to interlaced, that's why personally, I prefer interlaced shooting (widescreen) for my home videos. Of course, brightness can be manually adjusted to one's preference. But I would certainly be very curious to know if there is any recognizable difference between the GS100 and GS400 under the same shooting mode. Another Jap mag reviewer commented that the GS400 gave the impression of a "cleaner" look compared to the GS100, that is, less edge enhancement artifacts due to its tweaked Crystal Engine. Samples frames grabs of the same scene taken using the GS400 and the GS100 seem to prove his claim. Many thanks!!!

July 26th, 2004, 07:38 PM	#10
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	Thanks, Allan. Did you see the first link? The first link has the shot comparison at the same mode. Check'em out. I do actually have the interlaced comparison. So I will post them later. Only mistake I made when I did the test shooting is that when I shot 4:3 comparison of the three cams, I mistakenly left the DVC30 at 4:3 and movie-like (I intended to do interlaced with no special gamma). So, I did the other shooting in front of my house. I upgraded my dotMac disk space to 500MB, so I can put several other clips. I was looking at the access analisys on my page and surprised to find that most of you are windows users. What are your impressions about Mac?

July 26th, 2004, 07:42 PM	#11
Allan Rejoso Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Tokyo, Japan Posts: 569	O yeah Kaku, sorry I went straight to the second link. When you're not using your own PC, you tend to rush things. :-) I'll check out the first link later, hopefully after dinner.

July 26th, 2004, 10:11 PM	#12
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	Allan, no problem. I though I should post a different thread for the second one and now I know I should have. I will organaize better for the next time. Now I'm sending the comparison file of 400@30p/pdx10@60i/100@60i and 400@30p/pdx10@60iDI/100@60iDI (DI stands for deinterlaced). Do you think I should post a seperate thread, so everybody stricktly respond for that particular subject?

July 26th, 2004, 10:31 PM	#13
Patricia Kim Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Posts: 453	Kaku, you should post a new thread that says something like 7/26/04 (or is it 27 where you are?) Update on 100/400/dvc30 Comparison Footage. Start by telling everyone what the rules are for viewing, what the files contain, that they may have to unzip files, and then post the link. Makes it easier for you and for all who want to view. Esp. important if you want everyone to understand that they need to respect your rights to the footage.

July 26th, 2004, 10:38 PM	#14
Kaku Ito Trustee Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Chiyoda-ku, Tokyo Posts: 1,382	oops. I already posted the new thread and I was thinking exactly like what you said. Thought about the rights and stuff but now it is too much for me to sort out my rights and stuff, so I just superimposed the url. as long as someone doesn't use it to do anything wrong or modify it. It's hard for me to put the rights and disclaimer in second language. Do you have anyting that I can copy (public domain) from? <<<-- Originally posted by Patricia Kim : Kaku, you should post a new thread that says something like 7/26/04 (or is it 27 where you are?) Update on 100/400/dvc30 Comparison Footage. Start by telling everyone what the rules are for viewing, what the files contain, that they may have to unzip files, and then post the link. Makes it easier for you and for all who want to view. Esp. important if you want everyone to understand that they need to respect your rights to the footage. -->>>

July 26th, 2004, 10:45 PM	#15
Patricia Kim Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Honolulu, Hawaii Posts: 453	Sorry, Kaku, I don't have any language. What about posting a general notice on your web site itself that all rights are reserved? Also, in the business forum of dvinfo there are probably folks who can help direct you to what the general language is that is used.