953 is really that much better than the HC1000 ? at DVinfo.net

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Old January 27th, 2005, 10:13 AM   #1
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PV-DV953's amasing vs HC1000 (unless i got faulty unit)

Pls help,

am i crazy or the 953 is really that much better than the HC1000 in outdoor PQ?

i got HC1000 few days back as an upgrade for the 953, mostly for its better low lite, better OIS and HQ 16x9. Before buying i played with the cam in store and liked its feel and cool styling, i also read all that was there bout this cam and got an impression that this was it, than this cam was definitely if not better in PQ but at least on the par with my panny.
Now im not saying the HC1000 is a bad cam, it shoots nicely indoors, 16x9 's nice and OIS 's better indeed, but not all that better (i guess i was wishin 4 a miracle). It has some features that puts it in a prosumer range,features such as LANC, interval recording, bunch of separate inputs/outputs, shutter speed from 1/4 all the way to whatever that u'll neer use , but hey, its here.
Now, i was shotting outside yesterday and this morning. So i dont get it - video with 953 is so much better - colors r perfect, nice contrast, beautiful detail and most imporatnly things have depth and volume to em. I read that the 953 uses lotsa enhancements that supposedly make the picture overloaded with artifacts - well personally i dont see it, the video from the 953 is very naturalistic to my taste. I watched it on my 20" CRT set and on Widescreen Sony 50" - both r very nice (CRT 's better of course, but that s always the case, unless its HD footage).
Now comes the HC1000. Colors r all mesed up, oversaturated - its like the cam has sunglasses on. There's no depth to the picture, it looks flat, ok, not flat flat but defitelly flatter than the 963. For instance - the lil fur tree across the street looked like a dark triagular mass with almsot no shadow detail. I once had a chance to play with the Sony HC40. Now i think the HC1000 is closer to that lil cam than to the 953. I tryed to change various settings and adjustmenst - set sharpness to max, color to min and everything in between , i went thru all the Program AE modes, brightness, but couldnt get it even close to the DV953. So i dont know what to think now..
Some of u, who have/had trv950 or PDX10, do u ever had a chance to compare these 2 cams ? maybe im doing sumthing wrong, maybe i got fualty unit?

Pls help, and pls help me quick, cuz if i had to return it back to the store i have to do it in a couple of days!

Thank u all on advance

PS i'll post this message in a few other threads for better 'demographic covereage' )
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Old January 27th, 2005, 11:31 AM   #2
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Mike,
The DV953 is an exceptionally high quality cam in good light. From pictures I have seen taken with the HC1000, it is much softer than the GS400 or DV953. I haven't compared them, that is just my observation from video that others have taken. BTW, the DV953 has optical stabilization. Also, I prefer its jog dial menu navigation over the touch screen stuff.
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Old January 27th, 2005, 11:55 AM   #3
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Guy,
touch screen isnt the worst thing, i actually even liked it.
Anyway, you may be the right person to ask this. Every1 was saying that HC1000 was essentially the same cam as TRV950, just differentially repackaged , is it true? I wonder if the TRV950 takes the same kind of video? In a way i based my decision to get the HC1000 on the proven track record and good rep of the TRV950.
So if the TRV950 is as soft as the HC1000 then now i dont know what to think of all these online reviews /user opinion.

Btw, how the GS400 compares to the 953 for outdoor shooting?
And if you or sum1 on this forum could compare DVC30 with the 953?
I'd really appreciate it.
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Old January 27th, 2005, 01:03 PM   #4
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<< PS i'll post this message in a few other threads for better 'demographic covereage' >>

Ack! please don't cross-post, it makes the topic too hard to follow.
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Old January 27th, 2005, 04:15 PM   #5
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Mike,
I don't know if the HC1000 is the same as the TRV950. Somehow I doubt it. You might ask in the Sony forums here.

The DV953 and GS400 are very similar outdoors...as are the other GS series 3CCD cams from Panasonic.

Can't really help you on the DVC30 since I haven't had the opportunity to test one. From what I've seen, the video in good light will be close among the Panasonics. The DVC30 does better in low light.
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Old January 28th, 2005, 03:27 AM   #6
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Mike,

I have both the DV953 and DVC30.

In good light, the default colors on the 953 seem more intense than the DVC30, but you can tweak the DVC30 to have more intense colors if you like (personally I don't like colors that way).

Guy is correct about the DVC30 in low light. I see a big difference. Much less grain is seen on the DVC30 in low light situations compared to the DV953 in the same lighting.

The DV953 is a very good camera, it just needs a lot of light to shine.
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Old January 28th, 2005, 04:36 AM   #7
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Pana sells light kits for the DV953. ;)

In all honesty, I found the build quality in both the HC1000 and DV953 to be very good. Nice and solid. I compared HC1000 and GS400 footage some time back and found them to be both excellent, but I liked the GS400's footage a bit better---it was just richer and more pleasing but not by much. (Played footage back on a small digital TV.)

If I had a DV953, I would not have up-graded to the HC1000 or GS400.
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Old January 28th, 2005, 09:25 AM   #8
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Frank,
i wish i should've known better not to upgrade. But whats done is done. I gotta swallow the restocking fee but the HC1000 goes back to the dealer, no doubt about that. Funny thing i've already tryed to upgrade my DV953 a couple of times before and every time it was the 'upgade' that was downgraded and returned to the store. Looks like the 953 is a keeper. And If i do upgrade, my next step up would most likely be the DVC30.

Alan,
if i may ask u, how do u compare outdoor video btwn the DVC30 and the 953, does the DVC30 produce at least as nicely detailed and well exposed video as the 953? Actually, i must say that my 953 tends to overexpose a bit so i always manually adjust the exposure and if footage turns dark(which happens almost never) i brighten it up in Vegas - works rather fine.

Thank
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Old January 28th, 2005, 12:27 PM   #9
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Adam, sorry, I called you Alan )
i apologize
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Old January 28th, 2005, 01:31 PM   #10
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I had the 953 and sold it even though i love it i bought the dvc-30 over all the 30 is much better in all light levels the dvc-30 is equal to the video pq of the dvx-100
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Old January 31st, 2005, 07:43 AM   #11
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Mike,

I like the outdoor video a little better with the DVC30 because the colors are more true-to-life in my opinion.

To answer your question "does the DVC30 produce at least as nicely detailed and well exposed video as the 953? " I would say definately. I also feel that with the manual settings on the DVC30, you have more control than the DV953.

Also on the DVC30, you can use the Cine-Gamma settings with or without frame mode. That is confugurable in the Scene File menu.

You said "953 tends to overexpose a bit". I think that is true sometimes. With the DVC30, I like to shoot Cine Gamma outdoors as a starting point and then change it (the settings) slightly if I want.

As I said earlier, where I really notice the difference is in average to low light. With my DV953, there were a lot of times when I wished I had bigger CCDs. I used Digital Effects 1 - Gain Up at times to record indoor performances but any motion would really look bad on the video in my opinion and too much grain. The DVC30 is so much better in this regard.

About the only thing I miss from the DV953 is the better quality 16:9 footage. But as we know, 16:9 and low-light are tradeoffs. Too bad we can't have both in a pro-sumer camera.

Adam
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Old January 31st, 2005, 09:28 AM   #12
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Adam , thank you for the reply.
You said that the 953 is better in 16x9? really? i dont know, i think that actually 16x9 on that panny is distoring, proportion wise. I can get exact the same WS pic on my WS TV if i switch the set to Wide Zoom on 4x3 footage. So to me shooting in widescreen on the DV953 always seemed pointless (again - im my opinion).
Honestly id rather pick a good all around 4x3 cam with uncompromised picture quality in all lite levels over the cam that cuts corners in pic quality but provides better WS, as i sadly found out with the HC1000.

Regards
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Old February 1st, 2005, 12:23 AM   #13
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<<<-- Originally posted by Frank Granovski : Pana sells light kits for the DV953. ;) -->>>
Are they any different than other light kits? Do you have a link for them?

Good luck.

Dennis
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Old February 1st, 2005, 02:16 AM   #14
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I don't know if they're brought into North America. E-mail Allan to see what's available. There were 3 pana lights made for the MX3000, so Pana must make at least 1 external lamp for the GS400. Also, I'm sure B&H has 3rd party lamps which you can attach to your stabilizer. Page 147 of B&H's Winter 2004/2005 catalog.
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Old February 1st, 2005, 08:10 AM   #15
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Mike,

Having said what you said on your most recent post, then I would reccomend the DVC-30 over the DV-953.

IMO, the best thing for you to do is try a side-by-side comparison if you can get a hold of both cams.

I don't have any expierence with the HC1000.
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