Blue shifts

Stephen van Vuuren · September 25th, 2003, 06:36 PM

With calibration, I would call it a "reasonable facsimile" :)

Jon Fordham · September 25th, 2003, 06:39 PM

Scott,

I wouldn't work with less than an 8" monitor. 8" monitors are convienent, and perfect for color and exposure evaluation in the field. But as Stephen stated, the 8" monitors aren't going to show you the full resolution of what you're getting in the progressive modes. Not to mention that the small screen may make it easy to miss critical image evaulation details like focus.

I would recommend that for critical applications, a 13" monitor would be the best solution. And a CRT monitor at that. While Stephen's suggestion of using a laptop to monitor the image is certainly convienent, a LCD can't be trusted for critical image evaluation. A CRT is required for critical color and exposure values.

Jon

Peter Jefferson · September 29th, 2003, 08:08 AM

back to the topic for all those pal users out there,

doing a quick shot out in a bright sunny day with an Orange Charger, a red outfited model, and a male model in blue jeans, did NOT have this blue wash.

however, once you stray from anythind above or below 2, you WILL get colour bleeding on exteme contrasted shots with lower detailed settings.

the charger being orange and the sky being bright white blue with the ND at 1/8 gave SOME bleedthough with the colour temp at -3, Boosted the ND to 64, opened the iris a little and problem solved.
this was teh only shot with bleedthrough

nothing else was affected at -3 temp

cinamea matrix was set, but cinegamma was OFF. as i didnt have time to mess with chromas and shifts, i couldnt risk ruining the shot as i was in another state.

Jon Fordham · September 29th, 2003, 06:23 PM

Peter,

You stated "once you stray from above or below 2. Please specify. Above or below 2 what? Which value are you manipulating. The chroma, the temp, the ped?

Lower detail settings are still preferable I assure you. At least -3 Detail. preferably more. Such as -4 or -5 in Thin mode.

In my experience, it is preferable NOT to vary the color temperature value to the - side. That is to say, be very very cautious when it comes to warming the image. I know everyone likes the "warm" picture and thinks that the "warm" picture feels more organic or whatever. But warm Standard Definition video is a very dangerous thing. It skews the color to a very bad side or the video sprectum. Once skin tones go too red, you'll have a really hard time getting them corrected to the proper "natural tone". Even though the blue or colder appearance is what this thread seems to be attempting to avoid, I would strongly recommend not trying to fix blue by shifting it red. Proper white balance should do the trick. If not, use the temp adjustment sparingly.

For PAL users, I would highly recommend using Normal Colour 2 instead of Cine-Matrix. The camera and format just can't handle over the top saturation. If you're colors don't feel saturated enough don't worry about it. It's better to push the color in post where you can carefully monitor the values of what the format can handle, instead of getting artifact ridden, blocky colors.

Indeed the PAL standard handles color better than NTSC. But it's still being put through the DCT compression of DV25. So go easy...

Peter Jefferson · September 30th, 2003, 06:36 AM

yeah mate i was referring to temp, i didnt adjsut anything else, i actually used it to create a bright day into a hot stinking scorcher and worked a treat...

skin tones came out nice as well....

but ur right about oversaturation. cant write much, having HUUGE problems with an ap right now, will write more when i get a chance

Nick Kerpchar · September 30th, 2003, 06:58 AM

Jon,
Great info. It should come as an addendum to the operating manual from Panny. Thanks a million! Nick

September 25th, 2003, 06:36 PM	#16
Stephen van Vuuren Space Hipster Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 1,508	With calibration, I would call it a "reasonable facsimile" :) __________________ stephen v2 www.insaturnsrings.com

September 25th, 2003, 06:39 PM	#17
Jon Fordham Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 242	Scott, I wouldn't work with less than an 8" monitor. 8" monitors are convienent, and perfect for color and exposure evaluation in the field. But as Stephen stated, the 8" monitors aren't going to show you the full resolution of what you're getting in the progressive modes. Not to mention that the small screen may make it easy to miss critical image evaulation details like focus. I would recommend that for critical applications, a 13" monitor would be the best solution. And a CRT monitor at that. While Stephen's suggestion of using a laptop to monitor the image is certainly convienent, a LCD can't be trusted for critical image evaluation. A CRT is required for critical color and exposure values. Jon

September 29th, 2003, 08:08 AM	#18
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	back to the topic for all those pal users out there, doing a quick shot out in a bright sunny day with an Orange Charger, a red outfited model, and a male model in blue jeans, did NOT have this blue wash. however, once you stray from anythind above or below 2, you WILL get colour bleeding on exteme contrasted shots with lower detailed settings. the charger being orange and the sky being bright white blue with the ND at 1/8 gave SOME bleedthough with the colour temp at -3, Boosted the ND to 64, opened the iris a little and problem solved. this was teh only shot with bleedthrough nothing else was affected at -3 temp cinamea matrix was set, but cinegamma was OFF. as i didnt have time to mess with chromas and shifts, i couldnt risk ruining the shot as i was in another state.

September 29th, 2003, 06:23 PM	#19
Jon Fordham Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: New York, NY Posts: 242	Peter, You stated "once you stray from above or below 2. Please specify. Above or below 2 what? Which value are you manipulating. The chroma, the temp, the ped? Lower detail settings are still preferable I assure you. At least -3 Detail. preferably more. Such as -4 or -5 in Thin mode. In my experience, it is preferable NOT to vary the color temperature value to the - side. That is to say, be very very cautious when it comes to warming the image. I know everyone likes the "warm" picture and thinks that the "warm" picture feels more organic or whatever. But warm Standard Definition video is a very dangerous thing. It skews the color to a very bad side or the video sprectum. Once skin tones go too red, you'll have a really hard time getting them corrected to the proper "natural tone". Even though the blue or colder appearance is what this thread seems to be attempting to avoid, I would strongly recommend not trying to fix blue by shifting it red. Proper white balance should do the trick. If not, use the temp adjustment sparingly. For PAL users, I would highly recommend using Normal Colour 2 instead of Cine-Matrix. The camera and format just can't handle over the top saturation. If you're colors don't feel saturated enough don't worry about it. It's better to push the color in post where you can carefully monitor the values of what the format can handle, instead of getting artifact ridden, blocky colors. Indeed the PAL standard handles color better than NTSC. But it's still being put through the DCT compression of DV25. So go easy...

September 30th, 2003, 06:36 AM	#20
Peter Jefferson Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Aus Posts: 3,884	yeah mate i was referring to temp, i didnt adjsut anything else, i actually used it to create a bright day into a hot stinking scorcher and worked a treat... skin tones came out nice as well.... but ur right about oversaturation. cant write much, having HUUGE problems with an ap right now, will write more when i get a chance

September 30th, 2003, 06:58 AM	#21
Nick Kerpchar Major Player Join Date: May 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 211	Jon, Great info. It should come as an addendum to the operating manual from Panny. Thanks a million! Nick