24p questions

[Rob Easler]

I know but a lot of people are not into the 24p for various reasons and buy a GL2 or VX2000 or PD150 and if this cam was priced right it would be every bit as good or better than those models. I bet a street price would be less than 2500.

[Rob Lohman]

Why don't you just do the pulldown and leave the Telecide out
of the script?

[Nick Kerpchar]

A quick search of the net found one place advertising it at full msrp of $3,295 and another (more recognizable) dealer stating they are taking advanced orders at $2,750. That's pretty close to the $2,500 you mentioned Alex.

Wonder if Panasonic fixed the slack in the focus ring on this new cam (DVC80). It sounds like it has some nice features but the GL2 is still a proven cam and with a nice lens.

At any rate, the DVC80 may be just the ticket for folks that want a bigger flip-out screen and the other features of the DVX100 (sans the 24p).

Nick

[Glen Elliott]

I read in the manual that regardless of the timecode setting 24p modes default to non-drop frame time-code. Is there a work around? I'm worried about innacurate project lengths due to the extra .02 frames a second...that will add up on long projects.
Anybody have any insite into this issue?

[Jeff Donald]

The non-drop frame time code will not reflect the actual run time. If you're concerned about program length, use a Time Code calculator and figure total run time manually.

[Glen Elliott]

This wont cause audio sync problems right? It's just when the audio sample rate is below 48kb/s....

[Jeff Donald]

The DVX100 has sync problems unrelated to the audio frequency recorded at or what an NLE captures it at. To the best of my knowledge the DVX100 audio has neither of the aforementioned recording or capture problems. However, the DVX100 does have a video delay (sync) problem. The video delay cause the audio to be 1 1/2 to 2 frames before the video. This needs to be fixed in your NLE.

[Glen Elliott]

Is that just in 24p mode or in 60i also?

Where can I read more about this- I was totaly unaware of this!

[Jeff Donald]

Do a search, I wrote about it on several occasions. Adam Wilt has it on his site. The delay is a little less noticeable on the 60i if I remember correctly. The delay is very noticeable on an LCD display (most LCD displays have a frame or two delay also).

[Glen Elliott]

Will I encounter any problems capturing 24p footage in Premiere if I don't change the default off of drop-frame timecode. I know 24p modes default to non-drop frame timecode.....so what happens when "drop frame" is specified in your project you capture the footage under?

[Stephen van Vuuren]

Not sure, hopefully it will run project at 29.97fps which is what the Panasonic is capturing.

However, you would get much better results with DV Filmmaker if you are planning on using Premiere, currently one of the worst solutions for 24p editing out right now.

[Glen Elliott]

The camera records at 29.97 no matter what mode it's in. It's the pulldown which distingquishes it between 24p (4:3) and 24pa (2:3:3:2). It's only when you capture into an NLE that has native support for 24p that it can adjust the frames via the pulldown method to edit in 23.97. Your right...Premiere IS pretty weak in comparison, and I'll be moving to Vegas 4.0 +DVD when I gather the cash.
However for now all I have to work with is Premiere, and I'm wondering how premiere will handle nondrop frame tc, in a drop-frame project. Will it just throw the project length accuracy off or will it effect it in a more severe way...ie audio creep?

[Stephen van Vuuren]

Sorry, that was a typo. The problem you will have in premiere is judder frames. You will have to adjust cuts accordingly.

Per drop-frame, non drop frame, you pretty much need drop frame because unless you use DV Filmmaker to make a 24 or 23.97 fps file, Premiere needs to think the footage is regular 29.97 and you must watch for cuts of judder frames.

I don't see non-drop frame doing anything but screwing up timing and audio sync which you will need to adjust for anyway.

Have I mentioned that I consider DV Filmmaker a must have if you are going to edit in Premiere? That's the only way you run Premiere at 24fps (or 23.97 more precisely).

See the FAQ at http://www.dvfilm.com/maker/dvx100.htm for more details. A demo is there to try as well. For $95, you will save yourself much editing headaches.

Note you must shoot 24P advanced in the DVX100 for it to work.

[Glen Elliott]

What are judder frames? Are they the frames that are repeated to fit the 29.97fps standard? Do you mean I have to watch cuts on these frames because it'll make it more visible to the viewers if it's specifically cut on a repeated frame?

Regarding DV Filmaker- how does that work. Do I edit then output into filmaker- or run it through filmaker BEFORE editing?
Anyway I was planning on changing NLEs soon- Premiere's lack of 24p support and overall bugginess is annoying me. I was thinking about going to Vegas 4.0 +DVD, there are many enthusiastic members on here that swear by Vegas. With that suite I should be able to edit in native 24p and create real progressive scan dvds via DVD Architech right?

About the original question- I mainly was curious what settings to set, meanwhile, in Premiere while capturing 24p footage beings it records to tape with NON-drop frame time code by default.

[Stephen van Vuuren]

Judder frames are when on field is from one original 24p frame and the other frame is from the next 24p - it's an artifact of pulldown. You can see it clearly on the screen.

DV Filmmaker - you process first to 23.97, edit at 23.97 in Quicktime project in Premiere and re-output using DV Filmmaker. They have a detailed FAQ of the process at www.dvfilm.com plus demo.

Per Vegas & DVD architect. Yeah baby - 24p is all yours through DVD. Sonic Foundry has a nice 24p whitepaper just for the DVX100 and how to run 24p on their web-site.